Would you shoot?

[berettabone]

I had a discussion about these types of things, with a Leo that was in my neighborhood. He said, if you shoot it, make sure you drag it on to your property. Unfortunately, I think that you would have to wait until it did attack, before you shot it, making sure of lines of sight, etc. If an owner cannot train,control or handle their pet, they should not own one. I would not hesitate to shoot an attacking dog. I have been in the position before, and was not armed at the time. Control your pet, or it may not come home.

[miketafc]

That's why I conceal carry a sawed-off Milk Bone at all times.

[Rob K]

Ya just can't shoot the stupid dog because his owner is really the stupid one. Step back back as much as possible and see how much actual bodily threat there really is. Some dogs of stupid owners are barkers and intimidaters but it is really a last second decision. In my opinion, I'd rather face a bite on my leg rather than the multiple bites of $ hungry attorneys. It's sad but that's the way it is. Save your life but don't be a cowboy.

[b4uqzme]

I'd take one for PETA.

[RRP]

Two pages of replies, and not one mention of ability, opportunity and jeopardy.

[ohio lock]

I am a mailman (30 years this past December) and have been bitten by dogs 5 times in my career. Since I cannot carry while on postal duty (what a shame) I have learned to fight off dogs pretty well with my hands, sticks, feet, etc. But the other day I was walking with my little boy and a dog came barking and running straight at us. The owner was calling but the dog was not listening. My little guy was screaming and hiding behind my legs. I grabbed for my PM45 and held it. I was going to shoot before letting this animal hurt my boy. I believe the owner of the dog saw me reach for my gun and finally got the dog to stop. I don't know about who would be responsible since this happened in the middle of the street in a quiet residential area. But I do know that the dog was NOT going to maul my son.

[downtownv]

KNKali no until he latched on to me then yes.

[knkali]

well my two centavos:

Sad but animals are considered property and not family members. Therefore, you might be hard pressed if you shot a dog protecting your dog. I am not an attorney so I cannot say for sure. Second, I bet you would be hard pressed to make your case if you shot a dog and didn't have a bite mark on you. Therefore, I guess the best thing you can do is start yelling to see if you can frighten the charging animal with your "command voice"(yeah right--think mastiff). If that is not working go to pepper spray. If no go then blade yourself to the animal with weak side forward and take a bite and them pull on the dog. However, I am not sure if that is the best thing esp if the dog is large. It could take you off your feet and then own you while on the ground.

Food for thought:
Calm under stress for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tak19CU1MLo

[berettabone]

What you also need to take into account is, letting a Rottweiler or pit bull latch on to you, before you shoot it............................well, they can do a lot of damage in a short time, with their bite pressures, leading to long time pain, suffering, surgery, etc. You want to let a dog latch on, go for it..................personally, I don't want to go through that, so I'll take my chances shooting it in the head, and I'll sue the dog owners for every penny that they have. I'll take the chance of being sued by them, for the loss of their dog. Believe me, the way law enforcement and judges feel about these untrained dogs, I don't think you will have a problem. Up here in my neck of the woods, these dogs are hated in the communities, and some owners have to get permission to even have one in the neighborhood. They also have a hard time getting home owners insurance, and pay more when they do. I don't hate these dogs, per se, I don't like the owners who can't train them correctly. They are no different than any other wild animal. If you get attacked, you shoot them, plain and simple. This is coming from someone who feels bad when they find a bird egg, that's fallen from the nest.

[Longitude Zero]

Once the dog got to within 3-5 feet I would open up. Letting it bite first is crazy as you can just about bet that whatever body parts is bit it will later be amputates or so severely mangles as to never work properly again. I have seen dozens and dozens of dog maulings. The damage from large dogs is massive and quick.

[Earle]

I carry a stick, but I need it these days to stay upright...
My issue would be my own dog. The lil basstard would see another dog coming up as described, power out to the end of the leash and give it all ha had. Unlikely that the situation would naturally deescalate then. I carry my J size Rossi on those walks, two rounds of CCI rat shot and three rounds of hollow points. The rat shot works great on snakes (my most likely issue) and if I had to deploy the gun I would probably advance the cylinder one spot and try the rat shot first. If that did not "redirect" the attacker, the 125grn. hollow points would end the issue and stop an attack.
It would however, be very sad to shoot someone's pet and I would hold off until I was sure I couldn't anymore. I am now too old and gimped to run anywhere in the face of that kind of threat so my personal options are different from younger or more spry folks.
My two cents spent, Welcome to the forum Earle!

Thanks for the welcome. I'm now fully legal, through a favor of the county attorney - 30 days became one hour, somehow. I wouldn't shoot unless the hiking stick + pepper spray didn't work. When my wife and I hike out west, we carry pepper spray and it's been shown to be a better deterrent to grizzlies than anything other than a large caliber rifle. Also, this state park lies within the city limits of my hometown. Discharging a firearm, licensed or not, is a violation of a city ordinance, so there would be a court case to fight, probably winnable, but there, nevertheless. That's without the possibility of a civil damage suit for the value of the dog. I guess I've already blown cover that I'm a lawyer, but I'm really a tax/business/estate/will and trust type (NYU grad) - not a personal injury lawyer.

Out in our county, not inside city limits, I'd probably be a little quicker on the trigger. These dogs were labs, and, although sizable, didn't present the kind of threat that I would have felt with some others. Some others, particularly with a confrontational type of attack, I would shoot quicker. These two dogs were dashing and diving and trying to get behind me. IOW, cowardly attack. One sharp crack over the muzzle of the older killed her interest instantly. I hate to say it, but I was beginning to enjoy myself.

Now, here is another dog horror story (apologizing for the length of the post). Last week, a friend called me. He had built a house in Madison, a suburb of Huntsville, and fenced his back yard. Out of kindness of heart, he'd installed a gate in the fence to accommodate his backdoor neighbors to allow them to shortcut through his yard to reach the nearby high school athletic fields to see kids play. Well, said neighbors had two dogs, one a Great Dane and a lab. The Dane weighed about 135 and the lab, a big one, about 85-90. The two big dogs launched themselves against the gate and the latch gave way. They were trying to reach my friends two miniature Chihuahuas. (I thought they were all miniature!) The GD grabbed up one and my friend's wife ran out to intervene. She snatched the small dog from the Dane, but the lab snatched up the other and shook it like a rat. It survived, with a $1300 vet bill. I won't put out any more details, but my friend is an avid hunter, bowhunter and handgunner. However, he was laid up in the house, recovering from peritonitis caused by a ruptured gall bladder. Had he been able, I'm sure he'd have shot the dogs - and I would have also. As it is, a friendship has been broken. Some people have no sense with their dogs. These dogs had escaped twice in the last few weeks and had been captured by animal control and had to be ransomed...

[Planedude]

Understand about a neighbors dogs. My next door neighbor Bill was bitten by a neighbors Boxer. This is from the house behind him and they share the chain-link fence at the rear of their properties. The dang Boxer leapt up on the fence and bit Bill hard on his left elbow, trying to drag him back across the fence. The wound required medical work but the "surprised" owners of the boxer paid the medical costs and Bill let it go. Since then this Boxer has leapt over every fence around except mine (which why its still alive) and it has menaced several folks including children. The boxers owner then bought some 8ft tall bamboo roll fence and wired it to the chain-link common to Bill's yard. This boxer then found it's "inner panda" and ate the bamboo fence in just four days.
Now Bill and his wife are going to erect a fancy privacy fence to keep their dogs in and the boxer out. Bill told me the fence would cost a jaw dropping $4300 bucks...

I instantly blurted out "man, a 12gage shell is only 50cents"!!

[DavidS]

I have Brittany bird dogs. I work and train them on my property. Several years ago our neighbor's dog wound up presenting them with a litter of mixed breed misfits. They kept all the pups and raised them - but no real training. There were five or six of them. They slowly "disappeared" when caught chasing a different neighbor's cattle and killing another neighbor's chickens. When there were only a couple/three left they would sometimes come over when I was training and "try to start up a scuffle" with my dogs.
I called the county sheriff's office to ask about dogs running wild outside city limits and told them about my problem. I was told there were no regulations along this line in rural areas. I was also told that I was "allowed to protect myself, my family and my property". They said that to me two times, very slowly. :84:

[Earle]

Understand about a neighbors dogs. My next door neighbor Bill was bitten by a neighbors Boxer. This is from the house behind him and they share the chain-link fence at the rear of their properties. The dang Boxer leapt up on the fence and bit Bill hard on his left elbow, trying to drag him back across the fence. The wound required medical work but the "surprised" owners of the boxer paid the medical costs and Bill let it go. Since then this Boxer has leapt over every fence around except mine (which why its still alive) and it has menaced several folks including children. The boxers owner then bought some 8ft tall bamboo roll fence and wired it to the chain-link common to Bill's yard. This boxer then found it's "inner panda" and ate the bamboo fence in just four days.
Now Bill and his wife are going to erect a fancy privacy fence to keep their dogs in and the boxer out. Bill told me the fence would cost a jaw dropping $4300 bucks...

I instantly blurted out "man, a 12gage shell is only 50cents"!!

It's amazing, but some people just won't own up to the fact that they have a problem dog. We have wonderful next door neighbors. They are, however, in overload - parents in their early 50s (guy), wife about five years younger. They have four kids, with the youngest six. Recently, they took off for the Grand Canyon, with a neighborhood kid designated to look after their two dogs and put them up at night. He didn't. We have an anomalous lot - three wooded acres - and we have a number of deer who bed down here. (I'm about to take my crossbow to them and render them venison, if I can get it past my wife.) Well, while they were gone, their dogs decided our yard was fine recreation for chasing deer at 3:00 AM. We have one of those motion detector deer waterer spray guns. In this case, I was able to use it to keep the dogs out, rather than the deer. It goes back to the same point - many people accord their animals total free rein - and be damned with your rights. The pets shouldn't suffer for it, but sometimes they must...

[Earle]

Understand about a neighbors dogs. My next door neighbor Bill was bitten by a neighbors Boxer. This is from the house behind him and they share the chain-link fence at the rear of their properties. The dang Boxer leapt up on the fence and bit Bill hard on his left elbow, trying to drag him back across the fence. The wound required medical work but the "surprised" owners of the boxer paid the medical costs and Bill let it go. Since then this Boxer has leapt over every fence around except mine (which why its still alive) and it has menaced several folks including children. The boxers owner then bought some 8ft tall bamboo roll fence and wired it to the chain-link common to Bill's yard. This boxer then found it's "inner panda" and ate the bamboo fence in just four days.
Now Bill and his wife are going to erect a fancy privacy fence to keep their dogs in and the boxer out. Bill told me the fence would cost a jaw dropping $4300 bucks...

I instantly blurted out "man, a 12gage shell is only 50cents"!!

The friend I mentioned dropped far more than 4 big bills on his fence. In his case, money is actually not really an object at all. However, through graciousness, he built in the gate for the neighbor's access, not dreaming that there might be a weak point that 200+ pounds of dog flesh could be launched against and defeat the latch. If the dogs enter his property again, they won't survive. It'll be interesting to see if they remain faithful to their promise and actually pay the vet bill. Years ago, jogging in my neighborhood, I got bitten on the forearm by an Old English Sheep dog (can they see anything?) The neighbors were very compliant, until they saw the ER bill. Then they didn't want to pay that or even the cost of the sweatshirt he'd ruined...