+P+

[muggsy]

The goat shooting study was interesting but modern technology has made that test very outdated.

I spent all day Friday in our range with a ballistics expert from ATK. A wide variety of SD/police issue ammo of various calibers was shot into ballistic gel.

Summed up by the representative. There is absolutely no significant difference in caliber when shot into gel through denim or auto glass which were the two mediums we used during testing.

I am not speaking for the company, or representative, but what was said, "9mm is perfectly adequate to do anything a 40, 357sig, or .45 will do and the benefit of the 9mm over the others was the ability to control the gun far better which resulted in more accurate shots on target, not to mention the higher capacity round count, and the added cost benefit to municipalities. Quick quote from the rep was "In today's world, a bigger hole does not mean a quicker stop"

Penetration into the gel with both clad and bonded ammo was very close to 12" with every caliber of premium ammo they shot including .223 which fragmented and split into tiny pieces but still made it to the 12" line.

They do make specialty welded ammo that held together for longer distances in gel but over penetration was of concern.

The commercial Federal Prairie Dog ammo was what they recommended for everyday police use in 5.56/.223. The LE name is different, the round inside the box is not.

I asked about pre-fragmented loads and the penetration ran about 4" through two layers of denim into the gel. Not something the cops would ever use.

My deduction from the seminar and demonstration was the 40, and 357sig could be losing a lot of LE business nationally as many agencies are rapidly going back to 9mm as the round of choice.

Too much penetration is far better than not enough penetration. If someone is dumb enough to be standing behind the S.O.B. that I'm shooting into, shame on them.

[berettabone]

Muzzle velocity certainly makes a difference when you are talking about rifle velocity; however, when it comes to small pistols, not so much. I follow the heavier bullet (Fackler) rather than the lighter faster bullet in small pistols. My preferred carry for my MK9 is the 147 grain HST.

I also use this ammo..........................................

[marcinstl]

do you think the jury would like "extreme zombie killer" better than "safety slug"?
I'll look around for a box of Federal 9BPLE (+P+ 115gr. Hy-Shok) one time favored round by Il. State Police, or anything similar. want to see what the recoil, flash is like. also see if it's hot enough to go to a heavier recoil spring.

[berettabone]

There are differences of opinion, when it comes to the legal aspects of certain types of ammo, whether one type or another has an impact on a court or jury..........................