Why do the Kahr extended magazines exhibit problems?

[kahrinca]

There have been many anecdotal reports of for instance, the 6-rd PM9 magazines as relatively trouble-free, but if one has a feeding or other problem, it seems to occur almost without exception with the extended 7-rd magazines.

And the problem appears to be universal throughout the lines and calibers of Kahr.

What the heck is going on?

In the meantime, I've done the magazine test and magazine fix pursuant to the 'Proper Prep of a Kahr' Sticky...I had but one FTfeed out of 257 rounds fired about equally between two 6-rd and one 7-rd magazines in two range sessions. That FTfeed occurred with the 7-rd magazine with round #51 of the 150 rounds shot at that first range session. Since that initial range session have not had a problem after further sanding the follower a bit and as gun further breaks in.

What is the general concensus as to cause? Is there more than one cause? It really makes little sense as the 7-rd magazines do not seem to differ design-wise in any material respect from the 6-rd magazines.

What say you?

I know this is not an issue of first impression but keeping on topic here might be beneficial to all those interested in this occurrence and might consolidate some of the comments made elsewhere.

Does it persist for YOU well after break-in? If so, do you find yourself avoiding the use of those magazines?

This little 'mystery' has persisted throughout the years. It needs to be 'solved' once and for all. Not only Kahr customers are affected, those who are considering a Kahr may be sufficiently turned off from purchasing a Kahr firearm.

An example (sort of a 'turn-on' if you get my drift, with a corresponding 'turn-off' re Kahr pistols) follows. Range test is at 7:20:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCZu2LXTqbQ,

[deadeye]

Haven't tried a 7 rd mag in my CM9 but tried the Pearce magazine extensions on 3 of my 6 rd mags. No FTF's or FTE's but the slide would not lock back on the last round. Figured it was because of such close tolerances. Putting my little finger on the extension seemed to move the mag just far enough to cause the problem. Removed them and problem went away. Not exactly the same problem, but the results may be caused by the same thing.

[b4uqzme]

I don't think it's as bad as you say. I have several Kahr mags, different sizes, different calibers and they all run fine. But some have reported issues with extended mags and it makes sense that those shooters won't carry the offenders. It's no big deal really (?). If something doesn't work, don't use it.

[Alfonse]

I use extended mags quite a bit at the range and have never had a problem with them in any of my pistols.

I did have a standard mag not locking the slide back when pulling it back by hand in a K9 even though it works fine when shooting. When loading the pistol, I usually pull the slide back to lock open the pistol. Swapping out the follower, with another stock one or an aftermarket one, solved the problem.

[kahrinca]

I don't think it's as bad as you say. I have several Kahr mags, different sizes, different calibers and they all run fine. But some have reported issues with extended mags and it makes sense that those shooters won't carry the offenders. It's no big deal really (?). If something doesn't work, don't use it.

Is that similar to the expression: "If it's broke, don't fix it?

Part of any solution is acknowledging there's a problem. If it's merely a matter of break-in, that's one thing.

If not solely related to break-in, it appears there's a design or manufacturing type of defect re the extended magazines.

[kenemoore]

In my experience the extended mags work fine in my PM9, they all have issues in my PM45. In the 45, they don't seem to "lock up" correctly, I have to hold them in with my pinky to get them to work without feed issues.

[b4uqzme]

RE: "If it's broke, don't fix it."

No, it's just that for some people the ext mags indeed don't work...or they don't work well enough to be trusted for carry. I suspect that they may put enough pressure on the extended portion when gripping the gun to cause problems. But I don't know for sure because I've never had the issue myself. But, if I am correct, there is nothing to fix with the magazines.

But if you can find something to fix to get the extended magazines working for all shooters then, great! The springs are different right? Maybe look into that? What else is different? Could the baseplates cause the issue? The only other difference I can think of is the amount that sticks out below the gun. I know the fix for that...use the shorter mags. I hope that makes my comment more palatable for you. Good luck.

[Ron AZ]

Have 2 P380's. Both run well with 6 rd mags with many different ammos. 7 rd mags run well with 2 different FMJ ammos & my carry HP's.But if I go to some other ammos & and there is a problem ... it is always in the extented 7rd mags. One brand of FMJ's will cause at least 1 failure every full mag of 7 rd'ers but runs perfect with the 6 rd mags.

[hardluk1]

I have a cm9 and a cw9 I have used a 8 round mag in mainly as back up for carry but I have run a few hundred rounds thru it in both a cm9 and cw9 to know it functions 100% reliably. Never tried a extended version 7 rounder but again I have used the regular 7 rounders from the cw9 in my cm9 reliably also . With both I use the longer mag as a finger rest to extend my grip .

[muggsy]

I have nothing to back this up, but I feel that the pressure applied to the magazine by the little finger could be causing the feeding problems with the extended mags. Pressure to the grip should only be applied by the middle two fingers of the strong hand just as they do when you are shooting with the six round mags. I never cared for the extended mags and traded the one that I had for another six round.

[kahrinca]

I have nothing to back this up, but I feel that the pressure applied to the magazine by the little finger could be causing the feeding problems with the extended mags. Pressure to the grip should only be applied by the middle two fingers of the strong hand just as they do when you are shooting with the six round mags. I never cared for the extended mags and traded the one that I had for another six round.

Assuming that your theory is a correct one, it's totally unacceptable. A Glock 26 can fire just fine with a 17 or 33-rd mag attached.

[bilbo]

FWIW, I have two 7 rounders (newer MK720s unmodified) that have worked fine with my CM9. 200 or so rounds through each without issue.

[OvalNut]

I have not had this problem with my PM9 (PM9193), and I shoot it often. I bought extra magazines for range work, and installed the Pearce grip extensions on the 6 round magazines, and also shoot 7 round magazines as well. All with no concerns.

My $0.02


Tim

[JimBianchi]

I have three Kahr pistols.

My MK9 had no issues until I tried a panic-style reload. With 7 and 8 rd mags, it would jam if I held the gun so tight my pinky pushes hard againt the bottom of the mag. Jam.

K9 no issues with 8rd mags, I just don't like to carry it, so I carry two spare 7rd mags.

CM9 was intermittent with 7 and 8 rd mags. Finally, it broke the follower on my 8rd mag. (I have 10 mags total) I have not replaced the 8rd mag follower, only because it was a range mag and I have so many extras. (I did swap out a 6rd follower for a the broken 8rd follower and it work perfect, FYI)

My CM9 is 100% reliable with all 6 of my 6rd mags, three have followers that are smoothed/no hump, three are stock. Two are flat base plate, four have the pinky extension. It is the smallest gun I carry. and I carry a lot, second only to my G26. Love the CM9.

[hardluk1]

Can't prove it hurts to apply pressure on the longer mags by me . I have done it for close to 10 to ten years with 0 problems . If anything maybe problem is with the piece of added plastic kahr use's for a mag base on the extended mags .