.40 S&W dead - yes or no

[berettabone]

I've owned one 1911 in my life. Had to see what all the fuss was about. Never found out. Traded it a while after purchase. Didn't like the feel, nor the safety, nor the grip safety. The trigger wasn't all that either. Each to their own. It just wasn't practical for me either. They are nice looking though, and you sure can purdy them up.

[Bawanna]

Yall pick on the 40 all you want, got little use for it, but ease up on my beloved 1911's. I have 8 or 9 and little use for anything else cept Kahrs of course.

[gb6491]

P2SK? Is that HK speak for the P2000SK?

[O'Dell]

True Old Dogs grew up on them 1911's, and DA revolvers. Methinks you must be a Middle Aged Dog.

Yep, except in my case it was 1911's and Browning HP's. Another reason I prefer manual safeties and switched my favorite from SIG to HK - HK's have manual safeties, most SIG's do not. Also probably why I own and like my five 1911's.

[berettabone]

P2SK? Is that HK speak for the P2000SK?

Yes sir...………………...

[berettabone]

I am not sure why the 1911 model was not prevalent when/where I was growing up. My father was a gunsmith, so I guess if they would have been "the thing" at the time, I would have seen some growing up. My father and all of the friends and relatives had been in the service. No 1911's. When I became of age and started purchasing my first firearms, I don't recall seeing many if at all 1911's for sale. I really never got a good intro to them until I was in my 30's. Never saw too many being shot at the range. I don't know if it was a time thing, or a geological thing. Was there a period in the last 50 years where their popularity took off???????????

[ltxi]

Yall pick on the 40 all you want, got little use for it, but ease up on my beloved 1911's. I have 8 or 9 and little use for anything else cept Kahrs of course.

Touchy are we? Well you gots my x2 on the subject. One thing I've never learned to forget is swiping the safety.

[Bawanna]

The 1911 is all natural, I know this is a touchy subject for you with your pension for too big boobs and all.
But the safety is exactly where it should be. I use it as a thumb rest, when it's time to shoot, I just put a little pressure on it and off it goes.
I set mine up so they are positive click on, click off so they aren't easily pushed off or on.

It's the perfect design. I looked at a Ruger 9mm commander over where I got the buntline. It was nice, and I'm still pondering getting one in some flavor. Maybe a Rock or one of those.

[dustnchips]

You can't go wrong with a rock, they go off every time. Thing is, all guns can be used as rocks to.

[gale155]

The 1911 is all natural, I know this is a touchy subject for you with your pension for too big boobs and all.
But the safety is exactly where it should be. I use it as a thumb rest, when it's time to shoot, I just put a little pressure on it and off it goes.
I set mine up so they are positive click on, click off so they aren't easily pushed off or on.

It's the perfect design. I looked at a Ruger 9mm commander over where I got the buntline. It was nice, and I'm still pondering getting one in some flavor. Maybe a Rock or one of those.

It's all about training, reflexes, experience and muscle memory, sire. If there's one thing I learned during my law enforcement career, it's that bad things can happen unexpectedly, and very, very quickly. After 30+ years of intense training with Glocks, I simply would not trust myself to be able to react to a sudden threat quickly with a 1911. I know, as surely as I'm sitting here, that I would attempt to pull the trigger, then suddenly remember that I had to disengage the safety. All that could conceivably consume enough time for the bad guy to get the drop on me...no thanks.

From what I know, the 1911 is a wonderful platform; however, for some of us it's just not viable for self-defense. This is especially true for those of us who are current or former law enforcement, with little or no 1911 experience, who are perhaps a little more concerned with quick reaction to a threat than the average person.

[ltxi]

^ Well understand this. Grew up combat trained and tested with 1911's so them work quite well for me. The only SA semi-autos I own/use other than 1911's or a derivative design are Glocks...yes, I know but I view and treat them as such....and I swipe off their non-existent thumb safety without conscious thought. I don't do DA/SA autos and my only DAO autos are Kahrs...which I mentally action classify with my defensive Smith K and J frame revolvers.

This is not, in practice, as convoluted as it may sound.

[boscobarbell]

It's all about training, reflexes, experience and muscle memory, sire. If there's one thing I learned during my law enforcement career, it's that bad things can happen unexpectedly, and very, very quickly. After 30+ years of intense training with Glocks, I simply would not trust myself to be able to react to a sudden threat quickly with a 1911. I know, as surely as I'm sitting here, that I would attempt to pull the trigger, then suddenly remember that I had to disengage the safety. All that could conceivably consume enough time for the bad guy to get the drop on me...no thanks.

From what I know, the 1911 is a wonderful platform; however, for some of us it's just not viable for self-defense. This is especially true for those of us who are current or former law enforcement, with little or no 1911 experience, who are perhaps a little more concerned with quick reaction to a threat than the average person.

Well stated.

[kenemoore]

I agree it's all about the training, and the muscle memory. I have more time on 1911's than I can remember. I find my thumb hunting the safety when I shoot anything else. I try to attend at least one training session per year, often times the youngsters are amazed that I carry a 1911 in condition 1. They think it is so....unsafe.
But.. they are not for everyone. I grew up on revolvers, and encountered my first 1911 in the military. Really learned how to shoot it from an old gunny sergeant at a reserve center in the early 80's. Earlier this year I bought a CZ PCR as my new EDC, but gave it up and went back to my CCO. Just didn't feel right. Like others have mentioned, my thumb rides the safety, so it's second nature to unsafe it when needed.

I attended a training class a couple of years ago and it was for "experienced" shooters. There was a lady in my class with some model HK (I don't know much about HK's) which had a manual safety, and she would forget it 7 out of 10 times. She did it so many times it was not funny. I don't know if she borrowed the pistol or what, she was introduced as a "trainer" specializing in helping women learn to shoot. But it was obvious she had little training time on the HK or the high stress was getting to her, but a perfect example of what you non-safety guys are preaching. It would take her 1-2 seconds to recognize that the pistol did not go boom, and another second or two to remember the safety was still on.

Each to his own, that's why pistols come in so many flavors. Training is the key.

[gale155]

I agree it's all about the training, and the muscle memory. I have more time on 1911's than I can remember. I find my thumb hunting the safety when I shoot anything else. I try to attend at least one training session per year, often times the youngsters are amazed that I carry a 1911 in condition 1. They think it is so....unsafe.
But.. they are not for everyone. I grew up on revolvers, and encountered my first 1911 in the military. Really learned how to shoot it from an old gunny sergeant at a reserve center in the early 80's. Earlier this year I bought a CZ PCR as my new EDC, but gave it up and went back to my CCO. Just didn't feel right. Like others have mentioned, my thumb rides the safety, so it's second nature to unsafe it when needed.

I attended a training class a couple of years ago and it was for "experienced" shooters. There was a lady in my class with some model HK (I don't know much about HK's) which had a manual safety, and she would forget it 7 out of 10 times. She did it so many times it was not funny. I don't know if she borrowed the pistol or what, she was introduced as a "trainer" specializing in helping women learn to shoot. But it was obvious she had little training time on the HK or the high stress was getting to her, but a perfect example of what you non-safety guys are preaching. It would take her 1-2 seconds to recognize that the pistol did not go boom, and another second or two to remember the safety was still on.

Each to his own, that's why pistols come in so many flavors. Training is the key.

This reminds me of something that is probably still relevant regarding external safeties on personal defense pistols, and why they might be a good thing.

When civilian cops began transitioning from revolvers to semi-autos back in the early-80's, most (I believe) were SA/DA...in my case it was a Smith Model 659. In that the DA pull was heavy enough to make accidental discharges unlikely, the question many of us had was whether we should carry it with the safety on or off. My department chose not to address this in policy form, and left it up to the individual officers.

At about this time, some organization did a very comprehensive study on this very subject, given that many times officers are shot with their own weapons taken away by the bad guy(s). The purpose was to determine how long it would take for someone to be able to fire a suddenly-acquired DA/SA pistol on which the safety was engaged. A large number of people were involved (I don't recall, but think it was hundreds), and their experience with firearms ranged from lots to none. While I don't remember many of the specifics of this research study, I do recall the average length of time it took to "fire" the gun...16 seconds! For most of us cops, that meant we'd have time to pull a backup gun or knife, run away or wrestle our gun back. As a result, most of the cops I knew and worked with started carrying with the safety on.

When the department announced that we were going to Glocks, there were two primary objections by the rank-and-file. First, of course, was the plastic gun thing. Second was the lack of any external safety...all the bad guy had to do was pull the trigger, we argued. The rest, of course, is history.

What does this mean for the average civilian who carries for self-defense today, if anything? Personally, I think the chances of a civilian who carries concealed being disarmed is less than that for cops, primarily because we're not usually going to be engaged activities that invite that sort of thing. Now civilians who decide to open carry, which I think is a very bad idea, are a totally different matter.

[Bawanna]

We went through the same thing with Beretta's. Safety on, safety off? We determined it was wisest to leave the safety on and keep that muscle memory and remember to switch it off.
We then transitioned to Beretta's 40's with decock only so it became a moot point.
Most agencies around here where they allowed officers to carry their choice within certain criteria went to 1911's.

For awhile they were never allowed because the hammer back was to concerning to citizens. I guess they got over that and now we see a lot more of them again.

Our detectives can carry their choice but now they all seem to carry the issued Glock 30's. For awhile a couple were carrying 1911's. One got bit by the 9mm bug (everybody's doing it) and carries a 17 with one of the heads up display sights, his eyes apparently not seeing sights so good.