The future of the 40 S&W and Kahr

[Banshee365]

I confirmed with a Kahr employee on the phone today that Kahr will begin discontinuing models chambered in 40 S&W soon. This really bums me out as my first Kahr and primary carry piece is a PM40 that I love dearly. I still believe in the effectiveness of the 40 S&W regardless of the FBI going back to 9mm. Anyone knows there are FAR more factors that weigh into a decision like that than ballistic performance. But the FBI did move back to 9mm and, just like that, the 40 S&W is a garbage round. Thank you YouTube and internet. The market totally sucks for guns chambered in it now and it's only getting worse.

I was not given a reason why they're discontinuing the cartridge, but I'm sure it's due to low sales. You can't make products that you don't sell.

I wonder how this will effect parts availability down the road. Even though I believe carrying the 40 S&W over 9mm is better for me, as I shoot both equally well, I have to wonder if it's time to start moving away from the cartridge myself simply for market reasons. Perhaps that MK9 at my LGS for $450 would be a better long term carry gun for me.

RIP Kahr 40 S&W's.

[dao]

Your PM40 and everyone else's 40 caliber handguns will not be any less effective if and when Kahr discontinues them. I'll continue to own mine, carry them, and enjoy them regardless of any or all manufacturers' decisions to continue making them or not. I'm also old enough to remember that the 9mm round was widely considered insufficient compared to the .45 when the Beretta 92 was adopted by the US Military. Caliber wars are nothing new and can tend to be faddish. Just because Kahr and others may drop them does not mean ammo will disappear, though it could rise in price some. My personal favorite is the 40S&W and will continue to be regardless. Truth be known its relative unpopularity may have as much to do with the snappiness of its recoil as anything the FBI has decided.

[O'Dell]

Although my favorite round is still the 45 ACP, [11 of my 14 pistols are 45's] my MK 40 is still one of my best liked guns. I shoot it on a par or better than any of the others. I only have one 9mm,a PM9, and it is carried only when I'm forced into a pocket carry by lightweight summer clothing. Otherwise, it's my CM45, MK40, or one of my other 45's.

Personally, I really don't care if Kahr drops their 40's or not, because I have what I want and don't plan on buying any more pistols.

[Mike_usn_ret]

I have thinned my herd to only 9mm firearms...except for the .32 mag revolver my wife prefers to carry, and I have never owned a 40 cal pistol....my son however owns 4 of them exclusively. I can see no advantage of a 40 cal over a 45, so I always had 45s. I try to simplify my selections like asking my self why 380acp when a Kahr 9mm is almost as small and ammo cheaper? Same with a 45 over a 40? Not saying I am right, just telling my logical reasons in how i select. So why do some of you in here have 40s over 45s?

[Bawanna]

We think much alike Mike. I'm known as a 45 guy myself. My first Kahr was a K40. I had it magna ported. I like it but it just has too much muzzle flip for me.
It isn't painful recoil just flip. I somehow got a box of 45 with a handful of 40 mixed in, I'm certain it was from the factory but no way of being certain. I loaded a mag and let a friend shot my brand new Magnum Research 1911. Put it out of commission with a 40 case and bullet stuck in the barrel. Had to send it back for a new barrel. Since then I'm very careful to keep what 40 I have far away from my 45 and what tiny bit of 9 I have. I'm also much more careful to check every round as I load so that doesn't happen again.

The 40 is a good round, I won't dispute that, a detuned 10mm that the FBI thought they needed which turned out to be too powerful for guns at the time.
I just don't see a need for it in my tool box. I'll probably keep my K40 just cause I rarely sell guns but I did get a K9 only to prepare for the day when my hands and wrist don't get along well with the 45. So far I'm happy to say they still get along just fine.

I am kind of looking for a 1911 in 9 for the same reason. I'll have to probably wear a sack over my head so people that see it don't know it's me, same as I did when I got a Ford van, got to be too tough to see through the eye slits in the paper sack and paper sacks are getting hard to come by too. Plastic is to risky, I'd probably tie off round the neck and take the easy way out ya know.

I don't think the 40 will go away and one additional reason to keep the K40 is when everything else suddenly dries up due to politics there's usually still 40 on the shelf. I try to keep ammo on hand that I don't need to worry but if things dry up, 40 is an option.

[berettabone]

I confirmed with a Kahr employee on the phone today that Kahr will begin discontinuing models chambered in 40 S&W soon. This really bums me out as my first Kahr and primary carry piece is a PM40 that I love dearly. I still believe in the effectiveness of the 40 S&W regardless of the FBI going back to 9mm. Anyone knows there are FAR more factors that weigh into a decision like that than ballistic performance. But the FBI did move back to 9mm and, just like that, the 40 S&W is a garbage round. Thank you YouTube and internet. The market totally sucks for guns chambered in it now and it's only getting worse.

I was not given a reason why they're discontinuing the cartridge, but I'm sure it's due to low sales. You can't make products that you don't sell.

I wonder how this will effect parts availability down the road. Even though I believe carrying the 40 S&W over 9mm is better for me, as I shoot both equally well, I have to wonder if it's time to start moving away from the cartridge myself simply for market reasons. Perhaps that MK9 at my LGS for $450 would be a better long term carry gun for me.

RIP Kahr 40 S&W's.

Stick to your guns so to speak. When the ammo shortage hit, I had no problem finding ammo, while everyone else was complaining I was shooting. The problem is that many shooters can't hit @#^%! with a handful of rice. They use the excuse that it's just too powerful, or it's just too snappy. Use it and practice with it, and it's no different than anything else. If you can shoot with .45, you can shoot with .40. If you can't, either practice more, or go get a mouse gun. It's a fact that if your LE or FBI, there is no guarantee that you can shoot anything. When you qualify once a year, and otherwise, don't ever remove the firearm from it's holster, I take whatever they say about anything with 2 grains of salt. Many Kahr models are just too small to fire powerful ammo.

[Bawanna]

I agree with this also. One of the things I argue frequently here at work. All agencies want to follow suit with the military or the FBI or LA SWAT etc.

Especially equipment wise. We are far and away different than any of those. Time and money would be far better spent on range time and training rather than high dollar latest, bestest equipment.

They usually pull the officer safety card and I'm totally in support of that but playing copy cat to the big cities or agencies that are questionable in the know how department isn't the way to support that.

[Mike_usn_ret]

Aside from arthritis limiting my range time with a 45, here is I guess the real reason I stick to 9mm....I am a cheap son of a gun!!! 9mm is cheap and plentiful and easy on the wrists which gives me more range time and more enjoyment and practice .

[ltxi]

I've never been a really big fan of .40 S&W and that has dropped further as 9mm ammunition has advanced in effectiveness. I have three handguns in use chambered in .40....G23, G27, a Ruger S/A. Of the three, I'm good with the G23 and Ruger. The G27 I have never been able to shoot well in other than slow fire. To me, .40 filled a need back when it was introduced but has, for the most part, been overcome by events. I'm just fine with 9mm and .45 ACP as defense and other purposes handguns

[340pd]

I have posted this before so I will keep it short. A few years ago then ATK brought a few hundreds of pounds of Gelatin and a variety of their ammo into our range and after showing us their new rounds and advising us they can now produce a 9mm round that does everything a 40cal does and at a much lower cost to agencies. At the end of their demonstration, they basically declared the 40 cal to be on life support.
Reflecting back on why there is a 40 cal in the first place, their prediction seems to have come true. At our range, 40 cal brass is rarely found on our floor anymore.

[Banshee365]

I have posted this before so I will keep it short. A few years ago then ATK brought a few hundreds of pounds of Gelatin and a variety of their ammo into our range and after showing us their new rounds and advising us they can now produce a 9mm round that does everything a 40cal does and at a much lower cost to agencies. At the end of their demonstration, they basically declared the 40 cal to be on life support.
Reflecting back on why there is a 40 cal in the first place, their prediction seems to have come true. At our range, 40 cal brass is rarely found on our floor anymore.

Since when does gel tell the story of a rounds performance in real world conditions? I think the decline of 40 is mostly based on the hype and rhetoric spread around inside the community. Someone reads that 40 sucks online and goes to the gun store refusing to buy anything chambered in 40 based off of that. Compound that times millions of people.

[dao]

I confirmed with a Kahr employee on the phone today that Kahr will begin discontinuing models chambered in 40 S&W soon. This really bums me out as my first Kahr and primary carry piece is a PM40 that I love dearly. I still believe in the effectiveness of the 40 S&W regardless of the FBI going back to 9mm. Anyone knows there are FAR more factors that weigh into a decision like that than ballistic performance. But the FBI did move back to 9mm and, just like that, the 40 S&W is a garbage round. Thank you YouTube and internet. The market totally sucks for guns chambered in it now and it's only getting worse.

I was not given a reason why they're discontinuing the cartridge, but I'm sure it's due to low sales. You can't make products that you don't sell.

I wonder how this will effect parts availability down the road. Even though I believe carrying the 40 S&W over 9mm is better for me, as I shoot both equally well, I have to wonder if it's time to start moving away from the cartridge myself simply for market reasons. Perhaps that MK9 at my LGS for $450 would be a better long term carry gun for me.

RIP Kahr 40 S&W's.

Since when does gel tell the story of a rounds performance in real world conditions? I think the decline of 40 is mostly based on the hype and rhetoric spread around inside the community. Someone reads that 40 sucks online and goes to the gun store refusing to buy anything chambered in 40 based off of that. Compound that times millions of people.

Did you intend to prove your own point?

edit: September 2018 edition of American Rifleman reports a $16m order by the FBI to Winchester for .40S&W ammunition, because the transition over to 9mm will be a gradual process.

When you consider the number of .40 handguns in circulation, even if ALL production stopped tomorrow it would be years and years before the need for .40 cartridges decreased significantly. Same with the supply of such. Cries of the death of the cartridge are very premature. In the meantime those who have, value, and enjoy their guns chambered in that caliber have nothing to be concerned about.

[Bawanna]

Parts for the 40 kahrs I would not think would be an issue for quite some time. Many are interchangeable with the 9's.
Most seldom need parts anyhow and there really aren't that many.
Wolff will no doubt continue to provide springs so myself I'm not terribly concerned.

[MMyers1970]

I confirmed with a Kahr employee on the phone today that Kahr will begin discontinuing models chambered in 40 S&W soon. This really bums me out as my first Kahr and primary carry piece is a PM40 that I love dearly. I still believe in the effectiveness of the 40 S&W regardless of the FBI going back to 9mm. Anyone knows there are FAR more factors that weigh into a decision like that than ballistic performance. But the FBI did move back to 9mm and, just like that, the 40 S&W is a garbage round. Thank you YouTube and internet. The market totally sucks for guns chambered in it now and it's only getting worse.

I was not given a reason why they're discontinuing the cartridge, but I'm sure it's due to low sales. You can't make products that you don't sell.

I wonder how this will effect parts availability down the road. Even though I believe carrying the 40 S&W over 9mm is better for me, as I shoot both equally well, I have to wonder if it's time to start moving away from the cartridge myself simply for market reasons. Perhaps that MK9 at my LGS for $450 would be a better long term carry gun for me.

RIP Kahr 40 S&W's.

There are some really good deals to be had in .40 handguns lately. I've seen police trade in P229s for under $400. Glocks of all sorts for as low as $299. That means a lot of people will be buying their first handgun, and it will be a .40. I suspect an interest will exist for along time to come.