Please listen Kahr Corp--Re-engineer Magazine

[Russ]

The magazine plate for the 6 round CM9 kept sliding open while shooting. I corrected the problem by sliding the plate slightly open and inserting a drop of hot glue in the round part of the plate and quickly closing the plate.

If Kahr ever reads what owners are saying, please listen. Your magazine design needs to be re-engineered. It is a joke that I am using hot glue to keep the bottom plate from coming off during normal use. I also had to hand grind the front rounded part of a second magazine I purchased for my CM9 because the Kahr mag would not drop out of the gun.

While talking magazines, I would like to see the bottom of the magazine when placed in the CM9/Pm9 look finished. My CM9 is a nice looking firearm until you look at the bottom of the magazine. It looks like it is not finished. I read a thread on kahrtalk of a CM9 owner who took the plastic bottom plate he purchased from Kahr for the CW 40 and modified it to fit the 6 round Cm9 magazine. It made his Cm9 look finished. (You can view his finished magazine pictures on this forum)

If a guy with a few simple tools from his garage can make the Kahr magazine look 100 % better looking what is keeping Kahr from making a 6 round magazine look and operate like it should ?

If you can't figure out how to make a magazine work and look right I suggest you hire the guy I have mentioned to work from his home as an offsite Kahr gunsmith. I would gladly pay a few extra dollars for a magazine that looked finished and dropped out when I depress the magazine release button. Regards, Russ

[JFootin]

+1, and also on the follower hanging on the slide release causing nose dives, broken followers, split mag bodies and bullets falling out in your pocket. Come on! Beretta, Glock and others make mags that are 100% reliable. Glock even manages to make those 32 round mags work reliably. If you can't figure it out, contract with someone who can.

[slowpoke]

And, the way Kahr mags can start unloading themselves if not retained by a mag carrier is a bit annoying. But in all fairness, my Glock mags do it also..

[yqtszhj]

I think it's a QC issue myself. I would bet their CM9 and associated accessories (mags, parts, etc...) are as hot as the LCP was a couple of years ago when you couldn't find one and in the mass mfg process quality control may be slipping slightly. But again I have never had an issue with my CM9 or CW9 for what that's worth too. So it could be if you make 100 and only 1 is bad you only have 1 issue, but if you make 1000 and 10 are bad then you have 10 unhappy customers. Both are still a 99% success rate.

[CJB]

Ok, wait a dadburn'd second....

Firs' of all, one (or a few) report (s) of magazine base retention is not some reason to go out and redesign something that works well in all other instances. Jeeeze... there was a part problem, not a design problem. Either the dimple wasn't good, or the base itself, or maybe there was something on the magazine body that had an issue... who knows. A few pictures would have solved the mystery I'm sure.

Next... the bullets falling out thing. Guess what, almost all single stack 9mm magazines suffer from that, because the 9mm case is tapered, and you get rather weird combined effect with the tensioning in the magazine. The P08 Luger did it, the Walther P38 did it, the S&W 39 did it (to a lesser extent), the Colt 1911 in 9mm did it, and the Kahr does it....and Glock too I see. The problem is made worse by the relatively short throw of the Kahr cycle, whereas, the cartridge must be released rather early. In the Luger, the cartridge is released later, and in the 39, its later still, but you still have the problem to some extent. Straight sided cases, like the .45acp, .38 Super, and to a point, the .380's don't have the problem either.

The followers though... should be right. Snagging on the slide stop and nosediving the rounds on account of it is just bad QC. Right on the money with that one.

[O'Dell]

+1, and also on the follower hanging on the slide release causing nose dives, broken followers, split mag bodies and bullets falling out in your pocket. Come on! Beretta, Glock and others make mags that are 100% reliable. Glock even manages to make those 32 round mags work reliably. If you can't figure it out, contract with someone who can.

Very true. I'd also like to sent the same message to Kimber. They supply ONE [1] mag on their $1000+ pistols and the one they include is substandard. I had to spend $70 to buy two that would work. BTW, the original Kimber mag won't work with my other 1911's either.

[OldLincoln]

I strongly support Kahrs but not their magazines (which they don't manufacture). I suspect they didn't design them either but contracted with a magazine company to design build and supply the mags.

They are definitely not up to expectations however and although I almost always agree with CJB, I believe they can do better. Yes some other mags have problems also, but the number of cracked mags, spread lips, failures to feed, etc. doesn't benefit Kahr's reputation.

Have you ever wondered why so many guns are returned to owners noted they cleaned the ramp and test fired okay? Gee, think the testers are using the customer's mags or their bench mags?

I'd like to have Kahr send 100 new mags picked at random to Jocko who seems to shoot a lot and have him test them. Just mark them OK or Fail and report to Kahr on them. I don't have any reason to believe that Kahr tests their new mags at all. They just toss the sealed mag bag into the box and ship.

Mine, too had issues and I took it on to modify them and they have been perfect since - a long time. If I can mod therm and they are perfect, why can't they be perfect from manufacture? BTW, I'm talking about the infamous 7 rd mags.

And cracks!!! Why should ANY mag crack? I'll tell you why these do and it's also why they don't drop free and rounds fall out in the pocket and likely why they don't feed properly. The metal flexes at the top!! If made with stronger metal and to exact tolerances they would be good. It bothers me that they cost so much and made so cheap.

Again, I love Kahrs, just not the mags they buy to include with them. You're better than that Kahr, and can do better.

[CJB]

Well the metal flexes on other magazines too.... I think just about every single column mag flexes, while double column's seem to be stronger - probably due to the fold in them. Online somplace - I've seen it but no bookmarked it - is a really thorough discussion, with pictures, of all the 1911 magazine lip formations. The things you didn't know about magazines! Angled, semi angled, angled/straight, total straight, strait/angled (opposite), you name it... all in the name of feeding either one bullet type, ie semi-wadcutters or trying to feed everything there is from semi-wads, to roundnose, to truncated, to hollowpoint, etc etc.

They can do better, agreed. Thing I wonder about, and there is no before/after pictures (hardly) is those "polish the ramp" jobs. My PM45 came with a polished ramp. Not mirror bright, but it had been polished before nickle plate was applied. With just a minor bit of shooting, there were mirror bright surfaces on it.

I can only speak for me - I've got five PM45 magazines. I've got five PM9 magazines - but only shot two. All ten, bases are fine. All ten drop fine. Seven I've shot, shoot fine.

Back up there mentioned truncated cones. My PM45 liked those the best, at any length. Overly long round or hollow point... was a problem. Short was better - perfect in fact. But truncated cones just flew through there like poo thru a goose.

[slowpoke]

Ok, wait a dadburn'd second....



Next... the bullets falling out thing. Guess what, almost all single stack 9mm magazines suffer from that, because the 9mm case is tapered, and you get rather weird combined effect with the tensioning in the magazine. The P08 Luger did it, the Walther P38 did it, the S&W 39 did it (to a lesser extent), the Colt 1911 in 9mm did it, and the Kahr does it....and Glock too I see. The problem is made worse by the relatively short throw of the Kahr cycle, whereas, the cartridge must be released rather early. In the Luger, the cartridge is released later, and in the 39, its later still, but you still have the problem to some extent. Straight sided cases, like the .45acp, .38 Super, and to a point, the .380's don't have the problem either.

.

You’ve made some excellent points that I was unaware of. I’ve never been a big 9mm fan in the past and the only 9’s I’ve owned were double stackers. Old age has got me to favor the 9’s a little more theses days and while both my Kahrs in 40 & 9 have the same habit of the magazines trying to unload themselves it wasn't a deal breaker for me as it just got me in the habit of using mag carriers which solves the problem...

[jocko]

no doubt

I strongly support Kahrs but not their magazines (which they don't manufacture). I suspect they didn't design them either but contracted with a magazine company to design build and supply the mags.

They are definitely not up to expectations however and although I almost always agree with CJB, I believe they can do better. Yes some other mags have problems also, but the number of cracked mags, spread lips, failures to feed, etc. doesn't benefit Kahr's reputation.

Have you ever wondered why so many guns are returned to owners noted they cleaned the ramp and test fired okay? Gee, think the testers are using the customer's mags or their bench mags?

I'd like to have Kahr send 100 new mags picked at random to Jocko who seems to shoot a lot and have him test them. Just mark them OK or Fail and report to Kahr on them. I don't have any reason to believe that Kahr tests their new mags at all. They just toss the sealed mag bag into the box and ship.

Mine, too had issues and I took it on to modify them and they have been perfect since - a long time. If I can mod therm and they are perfect, why can't they be perfect from manufacture? BTW, I'm talking about the infamous 7 rd mags.

And cracks!!! Why should ANY mag crack? I'll tell you why these do and it's also why they don't drop free and rounds fall out in the pocket and likely why they don't feed properly. The metal flexes at the top!! If made with stronger metal and to exact tolerances they would be good. It bothers me that they cost so much and made so cheap.

Again, I love Kahrs, just not the mags they buy to include with them. You're better than that Kahr, and can do better.

kahr does not test fire with the mags that you utlimately get out of the box. Their test mags are exactly the same only we know they arent cracking (or we think they are not). Magazines should ot crack, I just wonder what is actually causing them to crack even . I have studeid their workings etc and just cannot for the life of me figure out why they crack and i MEAN WE SEE CRACKED MAGAZINES IN LESS THEN 50 rounds, SO IT IS NOT WEAR AND TEAR. i HAVE OVERF 32k OUT OF MY TWO MAGS AND NEVER HAD ONE ISSUE, NOT Because MY MAGS ARE ANY BETTER THAN WHAT COMES WITH ALL KAHRS. SO IS IT GUN RELATED that is causing this to happen, and if so why or what is causing it. certainly not recoil doing it, and being made of stailess these are not cheap ass mags. I have no clue as to what the cause is but I would be it is more gun (that exact gun) related than actually defective magazines. My P380 has a cracked magaxine inless then 50 rounds, got a replacement and it has never cracked again, so what changedf?// I have no clue. It is never the welds that crack but both sides of the magazine when it makes the bend. akAHRS DOESNT MAKE THEMAGS, most gun companies do not make their mag, but speciality copanys that are supposed to know what they are dcoing make them, and we just do not read about thjis cracking thing with other gun makers. They have bad magazies in alot of guns but not cracking crapola. Kahrs has to be concerned about this but they will never tell us eithger way. One day this issue will just dissapear, but for now not so..

I certainly do not feel their mags are cheap made...

[ltxi]

Daily carry and many thousands of rounds since I got into 9mm Kahrs over three years ago. I've never had a problem with any of their oem magazines.

[Barth]

Hate to jinx my good luck.
But I have to say that my MK40's original 5 round and 6 round mags,
plus an additional 6 rounder bought from Kahr,
have been of the very best quality.

Other than being little fussy feeding some ammo, and having to be careful
reassembling, I'm very pleased with it's performance, fit and finish.

[apdturbo]

if kahr doesn't produce their own mags then why doesn't some other company come out with a better version, they would obviously sell a lot, maybe an all polymer mag, or metal but black and coated for durability, different feed angle and follower angle, lesser mag spring weight and shaved followers. i'm sure all mag issues would be solved if someone produced it, and i'm sure kahr would reconsider their contract with the current manufacturer to opt for the new.

[JFootin]

if kahr doesn't produce their own mags then why doesn't some other company come out with a better version, they would obviously sell a lot, maybe an all polymer mag, or metal but black and coated for durability, different feed angle and follower angle, lesser mag spring weight and shaved followers. i'm sure all mag issues would be solved if someone produced it, and i'm sure kahr would reconsider their contract with the current manufacturer to opt for the new.
__________________
peace on earth

Amen and amen!

[OldLincoln]

Online somplace - I've seen it but no bookmarked it - is a really thorough discussion, with pictures, of all the 1911 magazine lip formations. The things you didn't know about magazines! Angled, semi angled, angled/straight, total straight, strait/angled (opposite), you name it... all in the name of feeding either one bullet type, ie semi-wadcutters or trying to feed everything there is from semi-wads, to roundnose, to truncated, to hollowpoint, etc etc.

The posts are in the M1911.org forum, Magazine subforum. I went to school on this stuff when I got new magazines for Dad's Colt, an alloy frame Lightweight Commander. I was having follower gouge in the feed ramp and learned a lot of stuff there. I had to sell my new MCM mags for Check-Mate mags, even retiring the original mag. These work perfectly.

Gotta keep in mid the 1911 design feeds a little differently than most modern autos in that it's a "controlled feed" whereby the round is managed all the way up under the extractor. Most new guns have a toss/catch arrangement that seems to work well but it makes a difference in the feed lips.

I didn't link a thread because you really need to read all the sticky threads to get the total picture. It was there that I got the notion to tweak my mag lips which fixed my issues with the PM9.