Ccw ammo choice

[Shooter xix]

Hi everyone I am new to this forum and this is my first post so I hope I do it right. I have a cw9 that I've been carrying for some time now and carry 124gr hst standard pressure. My question is I shoot the 124 and 147 poa and have put 200 rounds of both in the gun with no issues at all but what does everyone else think? Stay with 124 or go with 147gr?

[berettabone]

Welcome..............2 of one, 4 of another........................personally, I carry the 147 gr..........I like a little more lead...................

[Shooter xix]

My only worry is over penetration but I've noticed with the 147 hst it doesn't go as deep as other 147s

[chrish]

Over penetration in what?

I used to carry 147 pdx1 exclusively. Before that, 147 ranger. Never had a concern. Lately, I've moved to 135 Critical Duty. In all cases, standard load. I personally don't put much stock in +P ammo with all the new bullet designs out there.

I think if it tests out in denim covered gelatin at 13-15", repeatedly, and doesn't 'plug up', you are good to go. Most of the modern SD round will do that. Just check out the various tests, or run them yourself, and go w/ it.

[Shooter xix]

I guess I'm the type that reads into things to much but I've read a lot of ppl on other forums saying about the 147s possibly passing threw the bg and hitting someone behind them. Now I READ that not saying it would.

[b4uqzme]

I try not to read too much into it. I shoot golden saber 147gr because that's what my LGS recommended. I did a bunch of interweb research and everyone disagrees so I suspect there's no wrong answer. I shoot 147 well. Nothing over penetrates as much as a miss.

[Shooter xix]

So true!

[MuscleDude]

I found 147 grain loads are WAY quieter, probably because the round is in the barrel longer and theres more time for the powder to burn (instead of burning outside). Also the recoil feels less.


147gr gold dot really felt great from my PM9, also the speer lead is said to be softer so the speer 147s expand very reliably unlike some brands.

[Shooter xix]

I do have some 147 gold dots laying around I just like how much the 147 hst opens up I do really like the gold dots also tho can't go wrong with either one

[CB3]

9MM velocity after penetrating 10-12" of a human torso is very unlikely to seriously harm anyone, if it hit anyone. Such "over penetration" is not a concern when choosing expanding self defense pistol ammo. Ball ammo, non-expanding, will penetrate more.

+P ammo is supposed to deliver increased velocity over standard pressure ammo, but increased velocity also requires increased recoil and muzzle blast. Different manufacturers define their +P velocity at different levels. Usually it is a minor velocity increase with very little real world terminal effect. +P usually costs significantly more than standard pressure ammo.

The laws of physics require greater recoil from heavier bullets at standard velocities (~1100 fps for 9MM). Heavy bullets are often used for subsonic loads (< 950 fps) and they may have less recoil--and less penetration and/or expansion. However, a 147 gr. bullet at 1100 fps has to produce more recoil than a 115 gr bullet @ 1100 fps.

In handguns, penetration is your friend. Dangerous over penetration is almost impossible to get with an expanded 9MM going through a human torso. Ballistic gel results are designed for consistent, scientific comparisons. They cannot accurately represent what a bullet encounters when going through a human, which varies considerably. Skin is very elastic and will actually "catch" a bullet travelling a couple of hundred feet per second, preventing it from exiting in many instances. Some torsos are 8" deep; some are 18". You don't know. Prepare for the worst case scenario.

Firing fast and accurately is also desirable. Small pistols are hard to shoot fast and well compared to larger pistols. Shooting ammo that recoils less while delivering expansion and 12+" of penetration should be your goal. Multiple well aimed shots are required for better stopping probability.

I shoot the Barnes TAC-XP 115 gr. all copper hollow points. Labelled as +P it is rated at 1100 fps from a 4" barrel with low flash powder. Managable recoil, consistent expansion and penetration. Expensive, but your life is worth it.

At the same velocities, lighter all-copper bullets perform like heavier lead bullets for penetration and expansion. Copper is less dense than lead, but four times as expensive. The same bullet is loaded by other manufacturers such as Corbon, ASYM, Double Tap and Black Hills. IMO, this bullet and loading is the best compromise for 9MM self defense, especially out of a short barreled, small, fairly light Kahr. Imagine these expanded propeller-like petals rotating through a bad guy at over 20,000 RPM:



I worked for Barnes for over three years and saw a lot of bullet testing. I can afford and carry whatever I want. For every self defense caliber, including carbines and rifles, I use Barnes projectiles for serious work.

[berettabone]

Welcome..............2 of one, 4 of another........................personally, I carry the 147 gr..........I like a little more lead...................

I use the Fed HST's.................

[Shooter xix]

Well I went with the 147gr hst did some tests of my own and looked up some on YouTube most I seen went about 13in in gel with 4 layers of denim that's about perfect in my book

[Shooter xix]

Thanks for all the comments and the help it's nice to see other that carry the 147 without worry makes me feel better about my choice

[DanTana]

I just purchase a couple boxes of Winchester PDX1 147 gr. for my soon to arrive CM9. I also picked up some 115 gr. FMJ range ammo but the 147 gr. will be my preferred defense ammo.

[garyb]

9MM velocity after penetrating 10-12" of a human torso is very unlikely to seriously harm anyone, if it hit anyone. Such "over penetration" is not a concern when choosing expanding self defense pistol ammo. Ball ammo, non-expanding, will penetrate more.

+P ammo is supposed to deliver increased velocity over standard pressure ammo, but increased velocity also requires increased recoil and muzzle blast. Different manufacturers define their +P velocity at different levels. Usually it is a minor velocity increase with very little real world terminal effect. +P usually costs significantly more than standard pressure ammo.

The laws of physics require greater recoil from heavier bullets at standard velocities (~1100 fps for 9MM). Heavy bullets are often used for subsonic loads (< 950 fps) and they may have less recoil--and less penetration and/or expansion. However, a 147 gr. bullet at 1100 fps has to produce more recoil than a 115 gr bullet @ 1100 fps.

In handguns, penetration is your friend. Dangerous over penetration is almost impossible to get with an expanded 9MM going through a human torso. Ballistic gel results are designed for consistent, scientific comparisons. They cannot accurately represent what a bullet encounters when going through a human, which varies considerably. Skin is very elastic and will actually "catch" a bullet travelling a couple of hundred feet per second, preventing it from exiting in many instances. Some torsos are 8" deep; some are 18". You don't know. Prepare for the worst case scenario.

Firing fast and accurately is also desirable. Small pistols are hard to shoot fast and well compared to larger pistols. Shooting ammo that recoils less while delivering expansion and 12+" of penetration should be your goal. Multiple well aimed shots are required for better stopping probability.

I shoot the Barnes TAC-XP 115 gr. all copper hollow points. Labelled as +P it is rated at 1100 fps from a 4" barrel with low flash powder. Managable recoil, consistent expansion and penetration. Expensive, but your life is worth it.

At the same velocities, lighter all-copper bullets perform like heavier lead bullets for penetration and expansion. Copper is less dense than lead, but four times as expensive. The same bullet is loaded by other manufacturers such as Corbon, ASYM, Double Tap and Black Hills. IMO, this bullet and loading is the best compromise for 9MM self defense, especially out of a short barreled, small, fairly light Kahr. Imagine these expanded propeller-like petals rotating through a bad guy at over 20,000 RPM:



I worked for Barnes for over three years and saw a lot of bullet testing. I can afford and carry whatever I want. For every self defense caliber, including carbines and rifles, I use Barnes projectiles for serious work.

Barnes is good ammo and it is a bit expensive. I don't carry Barnes nor like to get involved in ammo discussions any more, but I feel they make a good product. Lots of good SD ammo out there and they probably all do a decent job.