Glock 29

[TheTman]

Hey Barth, did you buy some stock in Storm Lake or something? Seems like you mention them in about every post, LOL. Just having some fun at your expense my friend.

[Gliderguy]

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

They recently have added a section about cylinder gap and its effects. they have set up a 357 revolver with nil, .001, and .006 gap and ran various 38 and 357 loads through to get the net effect of the gap. Seems like in almost all cases, even .001 would lose you 50-80fps vs nil. going up to .006 might be another 50 or so, in very general terms. So I what I take from that is in a real revolver that may not be as tight as .001, you can figure 100 fps loss over a sealed barrel. I guess the catch is revolvers measure only the barrel and not the cylinder, and semi-auto pistols measure the total length from breech face to muzzle tip, so you arent comparing apples to apples.

They haven't tested 40/10mm, or 41 or 44 mag, but I would expect the results to be similar, especially with heavier bullets and higher pressure loads.

EDIT: looking again, those generalizations are a bit high, but you get the general idea.

[Barth]

Hey Barth, did you buy some stock in Storm Lake or something? Seems like you mention them in about every post, LOL. Just having some fun at your expense my friend.

My friends are always giving me the business - LOL!

[Barth]

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

They recently have added a section about cylinder gap and its effects. they have set up a 357 revolver with nil, .001, and .006 gap and ran various 38 and 357 loads through to get the net effect of the gap. Seems like in almost all cases, even .001 would lose you 50-80fps vs nil. going up to .006 might be another 50 or so, in very general terms. So I what I take from that is in a real revolver that may not be as tight as .001, you can figure 100 fps loss over a sealed barrel. I guess the catch is revolvers measure only the barrel and not the cylinder, and semi-auto pistols measure the total length from breech face to muzzle tip, so you arent comparing apples to apples.

They haven't tested 40/10mm, or 41 or 44 mag, but I would expect the results to be similar, especially with heavier bullets and higher pressure loads.

I've got a Combat Handguns Feb 2012
They tested the Charter Arms Pitbull 40 S&W revolver with a 2.3" barrel.
Oehler Model 35P chronograph.
Federal Guard Dog 135 gr 1135 fps (rated 1200 from a 4" barrel)
Federal Tactical LE HST HP 180 gr 935 fps (rated 1010 from a 4" barrel)
Speer GDHP LE 165 1033 (rated 1150 from a 4" barrel)
Winchester Supreme PDX1 165 gr 1056

I don't believe anything short of actual ammo, in an actual gun, with a chronograph - LOL!

[TheTman]

Barth, since you are on such good terms with the Storm Lake folks, how about getting them to make .357 Sig barrel for the P40/CW40? I would love to give that round a try.

[Barth]

Barth, since you are on such good terms with the Storm Lake folks, how about getting them to make .357 Sig barrel for the P40/CW40? I would love to give that round a try.

I only have four Storm lake barrels.
With number five being manufactured as we speak - LOL!

They are actually kind of specific when it comes to barrels.
Only produce a limited number of versions for;
Glock
1911
Springfield
Sig Sauer
Smith & Wesson

Seems like they specialize in Glock covering most models.
In Sig Sauer only P220 and P226.

I had to break down and go with Bar Sto for my P239 357 Sig.

Far as I know nobody makes after market barrels for Kahr.
Even in my G27 I prefer the ported 4.16" barrel in 357.
The short G33 3.46" boots pretty hard.

Don't know if I'd really want my 3.0" MK40 in 357?
It's just about perfect in 40

[Gliderguy]

2.3 inch revolver barrel, plus cylinder length gets you really close to 3.5 inches overall. The 4 inch pistol barrel was an overall length, if following standard conventions. Looks like across the board you had about a 75 fps loss compared to the 4 inch test barrel. I suspect the extra half inch would have bought roughly half the velocity difference and the other half is due to the cylinder gap.

The combat handguns test results compare well with the results for 2-3 inch revolver barrels from the BBTI tests.

heck, a barrel that is maybe a few ten thousandths on the loose side of spec might make that much difference in velocity. Just look at how much friction costs the DPX bullets, particularly from longer barrels.

Wow, Hijacked my own thread. ahem. Glock 29, 10mm, still like the idea. Maybe I just need to go get a 500 S&W Bond derringer, break my wrist and put a dent in my forehead, and be done with this small but bada$$ pistol fetish.

[Barth]

2.3 inch revolver barrel, plus cylinder length gets you really close to 3.5 inches overall. The 4 inch pistol barrel was an overall length, if following standard conventions. Looks like across the board you had about a 75 fps loss compared to the 4 inch test barrel. I suspect the extra half inch would have bought roughly half the velocity difference and the other half is due to the cylinder gap.

The combat handguns test results compare well with the results for 2-3 inch revolver barrels from the BBTI tests.

heck, a barrel that is maybe a few ten thousandths on the loose side of spec might make that much difference in velocity. Just look at how much friction costs the DPX bullets, particularly from longer barrels.

Wow, Hijacked my own thread. ahem. Glock 29, 10mm, still like the idea. Maybe I just need to go get a 500 S&W Bond derringer, break my wrist and put a dent in my forehead, and be done with this small but bada$$ pistol fetish.

I have to admit an interest in 10mm myself.
Thing is I've got 44 and 357 mag revolvers.
And two 357 Sig auto loaders (one with a 4.16" barrel).
Plus my 5.47" barreled .45 with +P 230 gr isn't a slouch either.

[bapple]

I know what you need...





A Coonan 357. This will definitely be my next "1911" purchase. I've heard so many reviews of it being very reliable, and I've heard that this delivers the best velocity in .357 since there is no cylinder gap.

[Barth]

I know what you need
A Coonan 357. This will definitely be my next "1911" purchase. I've heard so many reviews of it being very reliable, and I've heard that this delivers the best velocity in .357 since there is no cylinder gap.

My version of a 357 auto-loader G27 4.16" Ported 357 Sig:
I don't see any cylinder gap?


Sig Sauer P239 / 357 Sig

[Gliderguy]

Bapple, now you've done it. But not for the reason you think. Had to study that .357 Coonan magazine and was noting how the groove that the follower pin slides through is angled so that the follower can pivot to a different angle as each rimmed cartridge is loaded or ejected. Almost enough data to make me go running back to that other project, the PM40 extra round follower with a new idea.

[bapple]

My version of a 357 auto-loader G27

.357 magnum, dude. I know plenty about .357 Sig. The .357 magnum is one of the best man-stopping rounds out there, far surpassing 10mm in my eyes since follow-up shots are so much quicker. Maybe I should've been more specific...

This is the ONLY semi-automatic .357 Magnum besides the Desert Eagle, at a fraction of the weight and size. It's very unique, but seems like it would be practical too.

And Glider, the Coonan design is very unique. The magazines are quite interesting and look like they would cause a lot of malfunctions, but from what I've heard and read, that's far from the case. I'm glad Dan Coonan is bringing it back.

[Barth]

.357 magnum, dude. I know plenty about .357 Sig. The .357 magnum is one of the best man-stopping rounds out there, far surpassing 10mm in my eyes since follow-up shots are so much quicker. Maybe I should've been more specific...

This is the ONLY semi-automatic .357 Magnum besides the Desert Eagle, at a fraction of the weight and size. It's very unique, but seems like it would be practical too.

And Glider, the Coonan design is very unique. The magazines are quite interesting and look like they would cause a lot of malfunctions, but from what I've heard and read, that's far from the case. I'm glad Dan Coonan is bringing it back.

I do have a review of the Coonan with a 5" barrel.
American Eagle 357 Mag 158 gr JSP 1,412 fps
Remington 357 Mag 125 gr JSP 2,167 fps
Black Hills 357 Mag 125 gr JHP 1,343 fps

My Speer GDHP 125 gr 357 Sig are rated at 1,375 from a 4" barrel

[Gliderguy]

Bapple, 357 Sig or Mag, Definitely Mag if you start running more than 4 inches of barrel length, it really seems a draw if you are running a 4 inch barrel and the Sig is putting out more energy from anything shorter than 4 inches. Granted, you don't see the heavier bullet weights in the Sig so much, so the Magnum gets the versatility nod...

(BBTI data)

My opinion, currently owning neither, but backed by actual data. Could make an even stronger case for the Sig if capacity is part of the question (and that seems tied tight to follow up speed, which I will make no more than an educated guess that the heaviest gun will be quickest back on target)

again, I don't have a dog in the hunt or an axe to grind, but the above is pretty much what I would offer anyone who asked my opinion on the subject.

Didn't really consider it, but wil the Coonan function reliably on 38 spl rounds or is it locked into .357? May possibly have to throw that advantage to the revolver.

[bapple]

Bapple, 357 Sig or Mag, Definitely Mag if you start running more than 4 inches of barrel length, it really seems a draw if you are running a 4 inch barrel and the Sig is putting out more energy from anything shorter than 4 inches. Granted, you don't see the heavier bullet weights in the Sig so much, so the Magnum gets the versatility nod...

(BBTI data)

My opinion, currently owning neither, but backed by actual data. Could make an even stronger case for the Sig if capacity is part of the question (and that seems tied tight to follow up speed, which I will make no more than an educated guess that the heaviest gun will be quickest back on target)

again, I don't have a dog in the hunt or an axe to grind, but the above is pretty much what I would offer anyone who asked my opinion on the subject.

Didn't really consider it, but wil the Coonan function reliably on 38 spl rounds or is it locked into .357? May possibly have to throw that advantage to the revolver.

Well reliability advantage will ALWAYS go to the revolver. I have read mixed reviews of how 38 runs in them with the lighter recoil spring, but I suspect Coonan is working on fixing that since they just got back in the game.

I guess the question is whether you want something concealable and light (aka snappy but compact) or something full-sized and heavy for recreational/on-the-hip usage. I would give the nod to Glock in the concealability/compactness case since they can keep all the size variables low.

But for awesomeness, uniqueness, exclusivity, sex appeal, and hard-hitting .357 action, the Coonan is hard to beat. I want one of these things so bad it's not even funny.

And Barth, that is some very interesting information. A 158gr bullet coming out around 1400 fps!?!? That is insanely fast. How enjoyable is it to shoot? And do you have a "B" model or one of the newer ones?