Question for the AR folks (Carbon 15 vs Smith M&P Sport)

[chrish]

I've been to mars and back reading about the Bushmaster Carbon 15 over the last couple of days. Have a bug for an AR again, never owned one. Don't need/care about the mil-spec debate. The AR forums are crammed with what seems to be one of 2 types of people, snobs and people defending their purchase decision...neither of which I particularly trust given that I don't know them that well or have the time to go read Joe Schmo's post history to see if he has a clue what he's talking about.

Which brings me to you guys. I trust the opinions on this forum far more than anywhere else I travel. And I kinda know who's who here.

Anyway, the Carbon 15 is appealing because of the light weight. I really really really like the idea of a barely over 5lb rifle. I always prefer light and portable over heavy and abuse-capable durable. I'm just not hard on stuff and have no intention of dragging this thing thru a war.

The M&P 15 Sport, well, same relative price, but about 1.5lbs heavier. Not a big deal, but with my girlish sissy tendencies, heavier is always an issue. But if it's really THAT much better, then I'd concede the weight issue and go w/ the Smith.

Probably will do no more than some decent sights and maybe a moderately priced scope or red-dot at some point. I have no desire for this to become a Barbie doll hobby, constantly buying and upgrading parts. It'll be a keep-it-simple setup for fun at the range and the hopefully-never possibility of SHTF...where I'll be hiding and running before shooting and fighting.

Not sure I'm even going to bite right now. Still also considering a 9mm carbine and would also like a shotgun. But gonna eval those two choices weighed against one of these 2 ARs and then make a call on my next purchase.

Just interested in your thoughts...

[muggsy]

Here's a video I found on You Tube that might help you with your decision. I have no personal experience with the gun, but I prefer accuracy over light weight in a rifle. Your needs might be different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_FSC5pMbow

[les strat]

I would go S&W over Bushmaster. Bushmaster's quality has dropped a lot since being bought out by Remington. They are not the Bushy of years ago (that would be Windham Weaponry, which makes a fine rifle.) The Sporters are good rifles at a good price. Also check out S&W's MOE line for light rifles.

I understand the "keep it light" approach. I kept the Magpul MOE handguard on my Colt LE6920MOE when the trendy thing to do would be put a couple pounds of aluminum up front. While not as light as the Bushy you are looking at, mine is a pleasure to shoot and tote around while still having the option of mounting a weapon light or any other accessory.

Wanna see pics when you buy!

[chrish]

Thx for the vid link muggsy, have watched that one and a few others. Have yet to find a vid bashing it, or even a bit critical of it. Seems to be a decent rifle, just the regular statement that you can do better for the money, but if weight is a primary decision point along w/ price, his may be the deal.

Les, i keep reading that, so thanks for backing it up...the bushmaster quality thing. Do you think its a concern at this price point? Again, is the s&w really that much better, both being budget models.

I also keep reading about the bushmaster barrel/guard running really hot...but that also seems to be common with any ar running the pencil profile type barrel. Any solution to that with a lightweight replacement barrel? On either model?

[kahrnut1]

i have 2 carbon 15s and they have been great. no problems with accuracy or feed. a lot of the s&w ARs that gun shops are advertising do not have chrome barrels. be sure and check model num. before buying.

[les strat]

Thx for the vid link muggsy, have watched that one and a few others. Have yet to find a vid bashing it, or even a bit critical of it. Seems to be a decent rifle, just the regular statement that you can do better for the money, but if weight is a primary decision point along w/ price, his may be the deal.

Les, i keep reading that, so thanks for backing it up...the bushmaster quality thing. Do you think its a concern at this price point? Again, is the s&w really that much better, both being budget models.

I also keep reading about the bushmaster barrel/guard running really hot...but that also seems to be common with any ar running the pencil profile type barrel. Any solution to that with a lightweight replacement barrel? On either model?

I really don't know as far as that particular model, but CCM (owns Bushmaster, Rem, Marlin, Tapco, etc)-acquired companies tend to be less quality than the brands were before they were bought out. That's not to say the carbon is not a fine rifle. But between the two, I would go for the Smith.

AR's run hot period. I scorched and burned one of our good beach towels using it to prop my Colt at the range. My wife scolded me well for it :32:I was only plinking, so be advised.

The pencil barrel may be all you need if you are just putting a few down range or hunting. If you are going to run a lot of ammo through it in one sitting, I'd go for a standard barrel for sure.

[7shot]

i have 2 carbon 15s and they have been great. no problems with accuracy or feed. a lot of the s&w ARs that gun shops are advertising do not have chrome barrels. be sure and check model num. before buying.

I also have the carbon 15 and have had not a single issue with it. Now I've only taken it to the range and not out in the field. So it has not gotten real dirty during firing. I also have cleaned it faithfully after ever range trip.

I switched out the red-dot for a reflex sight system which has made it more fun to shoot. I have mine sighted in at 50 yrds. and accuracy has always been spot on. But I've never shot it over 75 yrds. so take that how you want too.

It's been great for what I use it for, a good close-in range gun/zombie killer!

[yqtszhj]

Bushmaster's quality has dropped a lot since being bought out by Remington.

+1 on the quality dropping. My first native born Bushmaster is great. My second one is not as good as the first one.

[chrish]

so, help me out on the barrel ish. i'm digging as well, but you guys can prob answer it quicker.

Still not decided, but if I get the Carbon, I'm looking at the 3rd model down, the 14.5" 'Model 4' if I can find it (seems to be rare). The barrel looks different than the cheaper model, is there a diff, or is that just cosmetic?

http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp

I've also stumbled across Core 15 brand, they have one at the LGS (site, haven't laid paws on it yet) and not much info out there, but pretty light also and not plastic, polymer, pseudo-carbon-fiber. The few threads I've found about Core 15 seem to be positive as well, seems to be a very well made gun, maybe $100 more than the Smith or Bushmaster C15, and same weight as the C15 (just over 5lbs).

http://www.core15.com/products/compl.../m4-rifle.html

I really want a 14.5" barrel, but not finding many 'budget' models w/ that, other than the Carbon 15.

[Charlie98]

It's funny, my Colt H-Bar with A2 handguards never feels hot. I have a 16" barrel medium weight RRA upper on my LRB AR build with Magpul handguards and that thing gets HOT! ...even after just a few mags. The heat shielding isn't as robust as that in my A2 handguards, and I thought about trying to wedge another piece of heatshielding in.