M-4 ?

[olympicmotorcars]

I have been thinking seriously about getting my first AR type rifle. I really like the short barrel carbine type M-4.

1. Can I legally own one with a barrel that short? (14.5 inches I think )

2. I know this is a question with no really easy answer , but would you just build your own, or would you buy one off the shelf?

3. If off the shelf, what makers are the best?

4. how accurate are the off-the-shelf models?

[yqtszhj]

I have been thinking seriously about getting my first AR type rifle. I really like the short barrel carbine type M-4.

1. Can I legally own one with a barrel that short? (14.5 inches I think )

2. I know this is a question with no really easy answer , but would you just build your own, or would you buy one off the shelf?

3. If off the shelf, what makers are the best?

4. how accurate are the off-the-shelf models?

1. It will have to have the welded on flash suppressor that is 1.5 inches long or it will be a SBR and you'll have to pay the tax. Less than 16 inches is an SBR

2. If I bought one off the shelf I'd get a Windham weaponry (the original bushmaster maker)

3. See number 2.

4. I have a 20 inch M2 bushmaster with a competition barrel that is sub MOA if I do my part but its not as short as an M4.

JMHO

[ParabellumJ]

M-4 ?

I have been thinking seriously about getting my first AR type rifle. I really like the short barrel carbine type M-4.

1. Can I legally own one with a barrel that short? (14.5 inches I think )

2. I know this is a question with no really easy answer , but would you just build your own, or would you buy one off the shelf?

3. If off the shelf, what makers are the best?

4. how accurate are the off-the-shelf models?

1. Yes, but only if you have the NFA tax stamp, otherwise you have to have a 16" barrel (or a 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" flash suppressor welded on)

2. There are plenty of good rack rifles, and building one, while fun, isn't as cheap as it once was. Assuming You can find a quality rifle that is within your budget and has the features you want, I would buy off the rack.

3. This could be a long list, but in my opinion the following makers are some of the best: Colt, Daniel Defense, LWRC, LMT, BCM, Noveske, and Larue. Some "very good" rifles are CMMG, S&W, Spikes Tactical, Windham Weaponry, Rock River Arms, Ruger, Stag Arms, Sig Sauer, Palmetto State Armory. Also, there is a little known company called Barnes Precision that makes very high quality rifles, but good luck finding one. Not all of these makers offer a 14.5" carbine, but all have 16" barrel "M4geries" available. The only true M4 is made by Colt. Your budget will tell you who your candidates are.

4. Accuracy in most carbines is probably around 1.5 to 2 MOA with good ammo. I can usually shoot around 3 MOA with my Colt using iron sights, but the gun is capable of better with optics. If you want to get the most out of an AR for long range accuracy a 20" rifle is the best choice. If you want a rifle built for patrol or cqb then get a carbine.

My $.02 is the trouble of getting the NFA stamp isn't worth the 1.5" in barrel length. I would buy a quality 16" carbine or mid-length off the rack and use that as a starting point to customize it to your taste.

[Bawanna]

1. It will have to have the welded on flash suppressor that is 1.5 inches long or it will be a SBR and you'll have to pay the tax. Less than 16 inches is an SBR

2. If I bought one off the shelf I'd get a Windham weaponry (the original bushmaster maker)

3. See number 2.

4. I have a 20 inch M2 bushmaster with a competition barrel that is sub MOA if I do my part but its not as short as an M4.

JMHO

This^^^^

[RRP]

Good advice already. I'll add the following:

1. Yes, owning a 14.5" barrel is legal in some states; not all. However, as noted above, this is an NFA item and requires special registration and tax. Given the current backlog, it may take 7-10 months to take possession of your purchase. Don't buy an SBR for your first AR.

2. For your first AR, buy a complete, assembled gun with a 16" barrel. Put off the building projects until after you've gained some experience with the AR platform.

3. Lots of good suggestions have been given. If you intend to add a red dot optic, you can save approximately $150 on the rifle purchase if you get one without a carry handle and back-up iron sights. These are sometimes referred to as "optic-ready" or "flat-top" models.

4. A rack grade service rifle is more accurate than most people can shoot. Spending double the money on an AR is not going to make you a better shot. BRM skill is far more important than the make/model of the rifle.

Good luck with your search.

[CJB]

The two inches will cost you about $150 for a firearms trust. Then $200 for the NFA title 2 paperwork and processing of form 4. The you'll usually have increased FFL class 3 dealer fee, and the normal FFL fee and background check fee.

Once you get a title 2 weapon - you wont be able to sell it, except through a class 3 FFL to someone who wants to go through the same runaround

And you cannot bring it out of the state thats put on form 4 as its residing state.

Just food for thought.... two inches aint worth that for me, but it might be for you

[downtownv]

Just food for thought.... two inches aint worth that for me, but it might be for you

Two inches can make a big difference in some areas, but not in a carbine!

[h2ohhh]

M-4 ?

Lots of great rifles out there these days. Being an old school fogie though, I'm pretty attached to my Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle. Mines a stainless/synthetic version that came standard with a 20 shot clip (most come with a 5). It's a brass shucking machine with a simple Garand style bolt. Takes a beating and keeps on ticking. Downside, if there is one, is that they don't like aftermarket clips.

[Armybrat]

I've been gettin' the hots for a Colt LE6920 with Magpul furniture recently - $1,100-$1,200. Don't need one, but so what?

My Mini-14 is going to one of my sons.

[dirtkicker]

There are tons of choices out there. A determining factor also will be your purpose for having one. Range shooting, home defense, hunting?

I wanted a hunting/varmint rifle so I went with a 'flat top' or 'optics ready' AR. My research and budget took me to a Stag Arms model 3. I scoped it w/a Nikon and it will cut the X at 100 yards. It shoots way better than I do if you know what I mean. The model 3 was $799 when I purchased. After adding some picatinny rails, magpul furniture, and the scope I have around $1100 in it.

I am wanting a second one for home defense and just general fun. I intend to go with something that has flip up/down sights that can be co witnessed with a 1X red dot or some type of CQC optic then mount a weapon light on it.

Again lots of choices. For general range fun the Smith and Wesson M&P Sport gets great reviews as well as DPMS. The list in this thread by ParabellumJ is pretty spot on as far as I can see. Good luck with your search and enjoy the hours you'll spend online researching. The hunt is almost as fun as the purchase!

[DeaconKC]

Okay, I just finished building an AR. I have been working on and maintaining my firearms for over 20 years. When it comes to repairs, I take mine to a good 'smith. If you can field strip a 1911 you can build an AR. Before you start, decide what parts you want on it. Mine was a very simple build, started with a stripped lower, got the parts to build it and then ordered a complete Delton upper from MidwayUSA. It went together easily, as the AR was designed to be modular. Also, check out this thread for ideas of what you like, yeah, its over 200 pages, but worth the time. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/409...FF__PT_2_.html

[JimBianchi]

For a first M4, I would go with the Colt. $1100 or less is most places for the base model.

Great gun for the price and if for any reason you want to sell it later, it will hold its value better than any gun on the market.

[olympicmotorcars]

Thanks for all the great advice everybody.

[olympicmotorcars]

What are your thoughts on piston vs gas?

[ParabellumJ]

M-4 ?

For a first M4, I would go with the Colt. $1100 or less is most places for the base model.

Great gun for the price and if for any reason you want to sell it later, it will hold its value better than any gun on the market.

^^^This is solid advice. The Colt LE6920 is the rifle all others are judged against. It is the gold standard of AR-15's. There are better, more expensive options, but for $1100 or so you won't find any better.

As far as piston or direct impingement, I am going DI for civilian use. The piston gun is better running a suppressor and is also more reliable full auto, but unless you are using the gun in one of these configurations there is really no need.

The first question you need to answer is what is the gun going to be used for? Is it a precision rifle for bench shooting at the range? Is it for hunting? Is it a personal protection/SHTF gun? Is it all of the above? Once you have that figured out then you can narrow down barrel length, gas system and length, caliber, optics, accessories. Most people go with a 16" barrel carbine or mid length DI gun with flat top upper. This is probably the most versatile configuration. Personally I wanted a patrol style rifle for defensive use and something fun at the range. After tons of research I bought a Colt LE6920 and I'm glad I did. Good luck on whatever you decide. The hunt is as much fun as customizing it after you buy one.