Mistakes happen

[ltxi]

I almost had an AD/ND once, by all rights should have....serious stupid and if it had happened I would be seriously dead

[newCW45guy]

Same deal happened to an officer at a range I belonged to.
When she lifted her coat with her weak hand to draw and fire, that draw string pulled the trigger.
She had her feet at shoulder width and got way more than the nick the guy got.
just sayin'

So she apparently got the drawstring caught when she holstered and was a walking time bomb?

Gun goes in as soon as my pants are on... I carry IWB and if drawn I'm very, very careful re-holstering.

But thanks for the heads up.. any drawstrings on strong side can be easily modified to weak side.

[Bawanna]

Well that's comforting Colonel :001_tt2:

I think they can be disastrous discharges or just skeery cases of oops. That's the big difference.

Disastrous discharges should be rare as chicken lips if a person has any kind of clue at all.

Even the guru Jeff Cooper shot the power meter of his house with his empty 1911. His friends actually got the destroyed meter from the power company and had it bronzed for his desk.

Negligent? Yes. But nobody bleeding or physically hurt although I'm sure his pride took a hit.

[getsome]

I aint got a thing to say about discharges in an apartment, accidental or not....

[hardluk1]

I have 26 years of CC'n and another 18 years hunting with a revolver and I don't think I ever re holstered with out looking at what I am doing and with my higher riding cc pistols putting my trigger finger over the trigger guard as a guide it into the holster.


What set me straight early on was a guy showing off speed drawing and some fancy re holstering with his black hawk 44mag and somehow got something wrong and fired it going back into the holster and run a 240gr fmj thru his thigh muscle . It missed any bone and major veins but he did carry a limp for the next few months after a few days at the hospital. That was some 38 years ago.

[HAP1978]

I carry almost 100% of the time when I leave the house but I never carry with a round chambered. I just practice a lot with it to immediately chamber a round when I pull my pistol out of it's holster.

I'm sure I'll take a lot of flack for that but ever since I started doing it I'm much more calm and relaxed about carrying.

I first heard about carrying this way at one of the concealed weapons classes that I went to. The instructor was a policeman for 34 years and certified firearms instructor who also teaches FBI recruits on the side. So he's not a novice.

From what he told us the Israeli police officers carry this way. He talked about the pros vs the cons of carrying without a chambered round and it just made more sense to me. He said he carries this way and has for a while. After that I never looked back.

No guns in my house are chambered. They're loaded but never chambered. I've taught my wife how to chamber a round in the shotgun and handgun if she needs to protect herself and the kids.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bawanna]

You'll get no flak from me. I will pray you never need your gun in a confrontation situation. You'll lose.

I sense a lack of confidence in yourself and your weapon.

If your comfy doing it go for it. If I did I would not carry a Kahr. Chambering the first round in any autoloader is when there will be an issue.

I get a well used Glock or a nearly worn out Beretta.

Actually the best bet would be a revolver.

[HAP1978]

No lack of confidence in myself or my weapon, if you met me you'd probably say I'm a little over confident. You can't learn much about someone from a forum my friend but we may disagree on that also.

The lack of confidence you're referring to probably comes from me not saying my way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. I'm just on here because I like Kahr pistols and like hanging out with other guys who like Kahr pistols, not here to get into arguments and be an arm chair quarterback.

I shoot all the time and have been for many years. Never had an issue with my pistols chambering the first round myself and I've been doing that for 15 years. Go figure.

Thanks for the advice about the revolvers but I'm fairly certain I know enough to keep carrying an autoloader.

Good thing that makes this country and forum great is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Keep on keeping on.

[wyntrout]

Chambering a round is where most malfunctions occur. In a tense situation... not sure you've ever experienced a combat type situation where the adrenalin rush changes your senses and physiologic reactions... tunnel vision and loss of fine motor skills... the fight or flight... or crap your pants reflex, but things change and you may not have the luxury of two hands to rack your pistol... or in doing so call attention to yourself as an immediate threat. But, a real possibility is that you're using one or more hands to do other things... as in fending off an attack or trying to LOAD your UNLOADED weapon while trying to seek cover or holding an assailant off. If your pistol isn't loaded... one in the chamber... chances are that it will never be loaded in time to be other than a rock in your free hand... IF it's your gun hand!

You're deluding yourself with the "feeling more safe" attitude. That's like the people who haven't made up their minds that they can pull the trigger to defend themselves or their loved ones yet. Waiting until the moment that the hesitation can kill you is stupid.

That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of most people who carry weapons for defense. The gun is NOT LOADED if a round is not in the chamber... and you may never get the chance to rack the pistol... successfully. This action is best done under controlled conditions so you can ascertain that the pistol is indeed loaded and ready to fire.

The Israelis are military and can chamber rounds before combat, but we are faced with unexpected confrontations at close quarters. I want to pull my weapon and fire instantaneously... having already decided that was necessary. I don't want to worry about a failure to feed or any other possible problem... fumbling or drawing attention to myself and getting immeditely targeted... like in the Whack-a-Mole arcade game.

Second place sucks in a fight for your life.

The Kahr pistol will not fire unless you pull the trigger... a long double action, revolver-like pull... plenty of safety for a properly holstered pistol.

Wynn

[HAP1978]

Maybe so and we could sit here and argue until we're blue in the face. Having a round chambered worked out well for that old boy when it went off and he shot himself in the leg. He's extremely lucky that it didn't pass through his leg and hit his artery. Along with hundreds of other people who deluded themselves and thought it was "unloaded" and are either dead or someone else is because of their negligence and having a round chambered when there was no need to have one chambered.

I'm certain a huge majority of the Israeli army/police officers haven't seen a combat situation but they train that way so when the time comes it becomes an automatic reflex. You'll fight how you train.

I know it is most people's opinion to always carry chambered and good for everyone who thinks that way. I'm not saying that's wrong its just a different opinion. New ideas and new ways of thinking are always tough for people.

For me the benefits out way the risks.

[berettabone]

What risk? The risk of shooting yourself, or the risk of not being able to rack the slide fast enough? No one ever said that the Israeli police were the smartest group on the block. There is no argument here. It's a proven fact that you're faster with one chambered, simple as that. We're not in Israeli territory. You've been doing it this way for 15 years, because you've never had to use your firearm apparently. I feel for you, if you do.

[wyntrout]

You're free to be as unprepared as you want. It's unfortunate that you had a very opinionated instructor with an opinion that differs from perhaps 99% of the people who instruct for self defense.

In critical situations Murphy is always there to assist those who don't train for the worst possible outcomes. Having a positively LOADED firearm is very desirable instead of having to depend on a round being chambered under perhaps the worst condition or most inopportune time.

It has been shown that a determined knife attack inside 21 feet is almost always fatal to an experienced policeman who doesn't already HAVE his gun unholstered and ready for presentation. At close quarters, you are faced with preventing being killed or disabled before you can draw, let alone have two hands and the time to chamber a round. Stuff happens quickly.

'nuff said.

Wynn

[jg rider]

Here' a stupid thought. There's 2 shooting competition shows I watch on TV. One is 3 Gun Nation and I can't remember in the other name, sudden brain drain. They used to be on the sportsman channel, but I watch them on the Glen Beck, Blaze channel.
Well anyway these top shooters have to shoot their pistols during courses of fire. When they have to reach for their gun, they have to chamber a round then shoot.
They're working with full size pistols that are easy to grab the slide, with what seems like really light recoil spring.
I've seen some shooters short stroke the slide. This was in competition, under pressure, by world class shooters.
I've played drawing from under a cover garment at the same time as they reach for there pistols. I beat them by a large margin.

[berettabone]

Glock owner?

[Bawanna]

To be clear here, nobody is arguing here. This hasn't even reached a debate level at this point.

berettabone raises a very valid point. The average gun toter will in all probability never have to draw or have need for his gun. It's kind of like a fire extinguisher even though your house never caught on fire.

So until the day comes when you need it and you need it badly all will be fine.

I've seen the elephant so to speak and I don't share this to project like I'm some sort of authority on the subject, only that I know what it's like, but I would have had hard time even loading a magazine let alone chambering a round in a tight gun or any gun.

Adrenaline does funny stuff to the body.

A semi weak analogy was a conversation I had with a new friend several years ago over where we fish every year. Sitting at a picnic table talking to this guy and another fella who I'd know for several years. Got to talking guns as usual and he declared that his preferred weapon for defense was a shotgun.
I pointed out a man walking across the RV park heading in our direction. Told him the guy was a serial killer intent on killing everyone he meets and he's headed our way and will be here in 30 seconds. I put my 1911 on the table which he hadn't seen and told him he better ready his shotgun. Turns out it was at home in Oregon.

Bottom line is you do what works for you. Doesn't matter in the slightest what I or anyone else here thinks. I have an guy I went to school with who carries empty chamber on his Glock. I don't try to change or convert him either, in his case it's a good thing. If he ever turns on me I know I've got plenty of time.