Shotgun

[berettabone]

Nothing like the sound of a Rem being racked............. Friend of mine just picked up an 870 for $150.

[mr surveyor]

as a matter of preference, I do like the tang safety


jd

[DavidR]

Lots of great info here, thanks! Some more questions/thoughts:

Semi auto versus pump: it seems that semi autos have less recoil but you also have to run hotter loads through them or they may not cycle. Recoil-wise is a semi with a hotter load similar to a pump with a lighter load?

12 versus 20: there's certainly a lot more selection in 12 gauge. I'm warming up to the idea of a 12 gauge with lighter loads versus a 20 gauge

What do you think about this Mossberg 20 gauge?
http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-...-8-shot-54300/

[Alfonse]

I have a Mossberg 930, along with some pump shotguns. The 930 shoots light loads, or heavy loads, just fine. It can be had with in barrels from 18" to 28" and rifled barrels are available for slugs, etc. It isn't real expensive and there are lots of extensions and other bits available for it. It probably isn't the best at anything, but is competent at a whole bunch of things. I have a combination with an 18" barrel and a 28" ported barrel. I can change chokes on the longer barrel and I have an extension that gives me 7+1 with the 18" barrel. It is a pretty good all arounder and a very competent self-defense shotgun. There are a ton of different models. http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/930/

My favorite shotgun is still an old Ithaca pump from the 1950s.

[b4uqzme]

Most modern semi's will cycle any factory load.

IMHO you will find a 12ga semi more useful than a 20ga pump. Especially if you try clays.

That mossy 20ga should make a fine HD gun. I do like 20 for that purpose just in case the Mrs. needs to shoot it too.

[RRP]

Here's another view on the topic:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

[DavidR]

Here's another view on the topic:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Thanks. I read that article some time ago and it got me interested in the 20 gauge. Still need to decide between semi auto or pump.

[Planedude]

As a long time trap and skeet shooter I do love my shotguns. A few points that represent my own opinion and observations.

Mossy 500 vs Rem 870 for the most part comes down to the safety and price. I have three Remington 1100's and have 25k rounds through the three over the course of 15yrs shooting clay. I prefer the cross bolt safety, but really, I seldom (if ever) use it. On the Trap field, the gun is never loaded until one is on the station and its time to call "pull"...
The one thing I will note, I feel the tang safety of the mossy is fine for a "normal" field stock. I shot a tricked out tactical mossy with the speed feed brand pistol grip stock at a fun shoot a few years back. The gun felt great, pointed well and broke some clay, but the tang safety was way awkward for me with my hand on the pistol grip and I had to dismount the gun and look for it, in order to disengage the safety.
Your mileage may vary, but if I have to have a speed feed or AR type stock on my tactical shotty, it will have a cross bolt safety at the pistol grip.
Price wise, (Shrug) well that'll be what you decide it to be.

12 vs 20 for self defense. I keep a 38 as a "ready use" house gun. Give me 45 seconds to open the gun safe to grab my 1100 and I will be shooting a 1oz trap load. Why? I have shot thousands of them and I can hit a spinning disc, going 60mph at 40yrds every time. I know it, I trust it to go bang and I can do the math...

A 1oz load = 437.5 grains @1100fps = 1175.4 pounds of energy (at the muzzle). Inside my home, the longest practical shot is just 21ft. That one ounce load will rearrange the priorities of the very worst of SOBs with great speed. Oh! And did I mention I have 2500 rounds of it in the closet right now? I'll keep them busy, if nothing else.

a 7/8th oz load of 20 gage = 382.81 grains @ 1100fps = 1028.4 pounds of energy (at the muzzle). So a 20 don't give up tooooo much to the 12 at "inside the house" ranges.

I will agree with the statement from earlier, Get thy self to a Trap & Skeet club, meet and shoot with all the nice folks there, then you will have a new hobby and friends for life... followed by a safe full of shotguns.

Good luck with the search, let us know what you decide.

[b4uqzme]

... and I can hit a spinning disc, going 60mph at 40yrds every time...

Dang! Every time? I'm just most of the time!

Great thoughts Planedude. They should help David a ton.

[DavidR]

Things are becoming clearer - I'm going to need more than one shotgun.

[Manzanita]

I have two; a Remington 1100 semiauto that I've had forever and a Maverick 88 pump I bought earlier this year.

The 1100 has a pistol grip stock that I like a lot, 22" barrel, and mag extension. It's a very light shooter, even with full power 00 buck. It's bulky and a little unwieldy in tight areas, though, and, although it's been reliable since replacing all the little piston parts, I've had too many cycling problems with semiauto shotguns to really be comfortable with one for home defense.

That's why I finally broke down and picked up a Mav88. It doesn't have the tang safety like the Mossberg. I got the "security" version with the 18.5" barrel, regular stock attached but a pistol grip came with it. Now, I first put on the pistol grip and it was damn painful firing 00 buck. No way. I picked up a Knoxx recoil reducing folder and the difference is striking. 00 buck is very tolerable, with the stock out or folded. The wire stock doesn't look like it would be comfortable but as long as you're not too far forward with the cheek weld, it's surprisingly soft. The spring in the pistol grip absorbs a LOT of the recoil. With the shotgun, stock, and heat shield, I've probably got no more than $400 in it, probably less than that.

[DeaconKC]

Okay, I am an admitted fan of the 870, but the Moss 500s are excellent guns too. The only thing I would consider over the tang safety is if you put a pistol gripped full stock on the 500, you have to give up a firing grip to work the safety. If you are right handed, the 870 has the advantage here. if you do go with an 870, get a Vang Comp safety for it, they are great.

[mr surveyor]

I don't do pistol grips on shotguns .... just don't see any value in it at all


jd

[Planedude]

I don't do pistol grips on shotguns .... just don't see any value in it at all

I'll agree to a point, for me, a standard stock is comfortable and points very naturally.
However, we took a young woman, with almost no shooting experience to the range with a couple of pistols and a pair of shotguns. I brought a "lady size" 1187 skeet gun in 12gage. The young woman was not comfortable behind the gun with flailing elbows and her head canted awkwardly over the comb of the stock. Her accuracy was... bad... real bad.
The other shotgun was a "tactical" 870 with the Knox (?) shock absorbing AR type stock (don't remember all the details on the stock) and ghost ring sights. Shooting the exact same ammo (1oz AA lite skeet) from the same box, our young shooter was very good. Accuracy was there and she was comfortable behind the stock. Operating the gun (racking the slide) was an issue with every shot, but the smile was there in the end and a end of session picture was posed with the shotgun, the shredded target and a proud smile.
A pistol grip stock is not for me, but it is right for some shooters.
Peace

[RRP]

I submit that the improved shooting performance in Planedude's example is just as likely to have resulted from diminished recoil (reduced shooter anxiety), and ghost ring sights (familiar sight-alignment & sight-picture), than from the pistol grip stock.

I say that as a fan of pistol grip shotguns.

In my opinion, pistol grip stocks offer the following advantages:
1. Enhanced weapon retention
2. Commonality in training with the AR platform

Neither of these are very relevant in the sport shooting realm.

However, if one owns a shotgun for personal protection, the ability to hang onto the gun when facing an attack in close quarters combat is critically important. With the buttstock tucked under an armpit and with a firm hold on the pistol grip in retention-ready fashion, the short barrel (18") of the shotgun provides little leverage for an attacker to wrestle the weapon away. For this reason, I like a pistol grip on a fighting shotgun. That it provides commonality in training with the AR is another benefit.

The 870 v the 500 often produces spirited discussions. Both are reliable shotguns. Preference is often related to the location of the safety. I have been a long-time fan of the tang mounted safety on Mossbergs. My thumb naturally falls on the safety as I mount the gun. It is my preferred choice for sporting shotguns because I can manipulate it very quickly and it does not require my finger to be near the trigger.

I do acknowledge, however, that tang mounted safety devices and pistol grip stocks are a lousy combination. As others have said, it requires one to break their combat grip to manipulate the safety resulting in a slow first shot.

For these reasons, my ideal home defense shotgun has the following attributes:
1. 18" barrel
2. Extended magazine tube
3. Pistol grip stock
4. Crossbolt safety, mounted aft of the trigger

12 v 20 gauge is a matter of personal preference. Both are effective for personal protection in the home. Selection should consider the size, strength, and experience of all potential shooters in the home.

Pump v semi-auto is a matter of personal preference. Reliability is key. Be sure your shotgun cycles the shells you plan to use. Some semi-autos do not function reliably with some types of shells, especially bulk-pack target ammo.