Gov't collecting millions of phone records under top secret order

[les strat]

Conservative people/groups filing for a tax-free status probably didn't "have anything to fear" either, now did they? You see how they can use something innocent as intimidation and intrusion.

The thing is, what you say or do may now may be used against you in the future, even if it is something that is perfectly ok and legal now. Like posting on a gun forum.

I still can't believe the amount of trust some of you put in our federal gov after all the crap that has went down in the last 2... uh, 10 years.

[deadeye]

Isn't it disheartening what people will do for a "free" cookie? How anyone with eyes and ears can trust these clowns is beyond me. Maybe I've been around too long.

[ltxi]

Pay attention....this happens not at all often:

As I was reading Al Lewis's WSJ Sunday column this morning I decided I needed to apologize to some folk here for some of my harsh, factitious, and judgmental remarks.

I'm both personally and professionally comfortable with what's been going on with this collection thingy. In particular with respect to the collectors. Irrespective of the Patriot Act, EO12333 governs and is complied with.

I realize not everyone has the same understanding and/or comfort level with what's going on and I need to be more respectful of doubt and concern. Plus...an EO is of course just that, an EO....subject to the President's modification wishes.

I'm out of all of these conversations now with one closing remark....pay attention to Jim Clapper. One of the finest, most dedicated, and ethical Americans I know. If he gets replaced it'll be time to get busy digging the bunkers.

[MikeyKahr]

Re: Gov't collecting millions of phone records under top secret order

Hey ltxi, you mean the ethical, upstanding Director Jim Clapper who lied under oath when he said no when asked if the NSA was collecting info on millions of Americans just a few months ago?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...a-On-Americans

[ltxi]

Hey ltxi, you mean the ethical, upstanding Director Jim Clapper who lied under oath when he said no when asked if the NSA was collecting info on millions of Americans just a few months ago?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...a-On-Americans

Yes, that be him. Take what you want out of all what he said and the twisties surrounding it. If you knew the man......

Done here before and really done now.

[chrish]

Hey ltxi, you mean the ethical, upstanding Director Jim Clapper who lied under oath when he said no when asked if the NSA was collecting info on millions of Americans just a few months ago?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...a-On-Americans

One and the same. Also the guy that somehow got to the top of the food chain in our government w/o knowing the definition of the word 'secular' and 'violence'. He also doesn't read the news very frequently. I'm surprised the guy is even aware that someone leaked information about government snooping...c'mon, WHO told him?!...you crazy guys.

[les strat]

Hey ltxi, you mean the ethical, upstanding Director Jim Clapper who lied under oath when he said no when asked if the NSA was collecting info on millions of Americans just a few months ago?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...a-On-Americans

Should be in prison for perjury.

Man, our forefathers warned us about these folks. Over and over.

The thing about things like The Patriot Act (God, I hated even capitalizing that) is that each new administration expands upon it creating a clear cut path for tyranny. Obama did, even though he campaigned against it in 2007.

It's not rocket science. It's happened over and over throughout time.

[knkali]

You gots no f'ing clue about what's really goin' on out there. Hard for the paranoid to accept, I understand. But in this case, your gov't is and has been doing it's utmost best to cover our asses. No "planes into towers" since 2001 doesn't come easy, cheap, and/or without some price.

And there it is right there...... Yep the terrorists are winning. They hate our way of life and our liberties. We are willing to throw our liberties away (pay the price)in the name of protection from the terrorists.

[muggsy]

That is incredible BS. Obama derided the Bush administration for the very thing you are defending him of now.

Sen Obama December 15, 2005 - "And if someone wants to know why their own government has decided to go on a fishing expedition through every personal record or private document - through library books they've read and phone calls they've made - this legislation gives people no rights to appeal the need for such a search in a court of law. No judge will hear their plea, no jury will hear their case. This is just plain wrong."

http://obamaspeeches.com/041-The-PAT...ama-Speech.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=gF3MC-TkpRQ

No government, no war powers or patriot act supersedes the 4th Amendment of the Constitution.

I supported Bush and I support Obama in mining phone records to ferret out terrorists. There is nothing hypocritical in my position. I have absolutely nothing to hide. If Obama is interested in how often I call my mother let him look. There is nothing in my phone records that is illegal or incriminating. During a war civil rights are often suspended. The Patriot Act which allows for data mining passed in both houses of government with overriding support.

[muggsy]

Hey ltxi, you mean the ethical, upstanding Director Jim Clapper who lied under oath when he said no when asked if the NSA was collecting info on millions of Americans just a few months ago?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...a-On-Americans

Mr Clapper had a choice to make. He could lie to congress or compromise our national security. On issues of national security the question posed to Mr. Clapper should have been asked behind closed doors and not on national television. That is what is known in the business of politics as grandstanding. Damn if he did and damned if he didn't. Not a very comfortable position to be in.

[chrish]

I don't think folks really understand the patriot act, nor do they understand what is being 'mined' or could be 'mined' in this case.

First, the patriot act, they initially passed the law with the intention and the language to 'mine' phone calls to/from destinations outside of the US. What they are collecting now is the entire phone metadata database from the carriers. Of course, this is assuming the articles and information out there is correct. If it is NOT correct, then let the government clarify that. To date, they have not. Until they do, it smells illegal.

Second, the data and the 'mining', whether you care about your calls to your mom and the local gun store...that's not what this is about. The information they have can produce a pattern of your behavior. Everything is modeled. You can claim all day long that even your pattern of behavior is not illegal and therefore you have nothing to worry about. Then again, your LEGAL pattern of behavior, based on the model, could point to something else LEGAL that they want to check out or harass you over. Or how about this, maybe your behavior today is legal but tomorrow it won't be. It's not like they are deleting this data after they analyze it. Once they have it, its there forever.

Believe what you want. Think what you want. This is headed to an evil place.

[deadeye]

Clapper is my hero! I like liars. No such thing as a part time liar. Either you is or you isn't. Easy to figure out. I can't wait for Pelosi, Feinberg, Frank and Bloomberg to run my life. How sweet it will be!!

[MikeyKahr]

Re: Gov't collecting millions of phone records under top secret order

Mr Clapper had a choice to make. He could lie to congress or compromise our national security. On issues of national security the question posed to Mr. Clapper should have been asked behind closed doors and not on national television. That is what is known in the business of politics as grandstanding. Damn if he did and damned if he didn't. Not a very comfortable position to be in.

Mr. Clapper's choice was lie to Congress or...TELL THE TRUTH! Other options would be do not answer or plead the Fifth. Compromising national security was a secondary issue. But he just played the game like they all play and lied through his teeth smiling all the way knowing that almost everyone in the room including the Senator asking the question knew he was lying. What a pointless waste of time and money.

Wouldn't it have been refreshing for Mr. Clapper to have actually told the truth? Yes, we collect data of millions of Americans. Have since 2001. You know we do Senator, I just told you we did behind closed doors. Don't tell me you're naive, muggsy, and think this was the DNI's and the Senator's first tango?

On a side note, I really wonder why congressional committees waste the time of putting witnesses under oath. Not much point anymore to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[chrish]

There is legal and illegal, constitutional and unconstitutional. Few truly understand the difference in any of those, including James Clapper.

[muggsy]

Mr. Clapper's choice was lie to Congress or...TELL THE TRUTH! Other options would be do not answer or plead the Fifth. Compromising national security was a secondary issue. But he just played the game like they all play and lied through his teeth smiling all the way knowing that almost everyone in the room including the Senator asking the question knew he was lying. What a pointless waste of time and money.

Wouldn't it have been refreshing for Mr. Clapper to have actually told the truth? Yes, we collect data of millions of Americans. Have since 2001. You know we do Senator, I just told you we did behind closed doors. Don't tell me you're naive, muggsy, and think this was the DNI's and the Senator's first tango?

On a side note, I really wonder why congressional committees waste the time of putting witnesses under oath. Not much point anymore to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You cannot plead the 5th after you have started to testify. You can only claim the 5th at the start of testimony. By testifying you waive your 5th amendment rights. While I accept the need for data mining I do not support the abuse of the data mined. That is unconstitutional and a violation of the law. Early on I asked everyone to name just one innocent person who had been harmed by data mining. Not one of you did. I can point to three thousand Americans who lost their lives on 9/11, because we weren't data mining. The government consists of the President, Vice President, 100 members of the Senate, 535 members of congress and nine Supreme Court Justices. There are 230 million adult Americans. The government claims that it doesn't have the resources or man power to handle 12 million illegal immigrants. What in the hell are you afraid of? All of you please try to think before you reply.