Is Obamacare Socialist?

[JohnR]

The government isn't going to sell insurance policies, nor is it going to sell medical care under O-care. I hate every aspect of it, but it didn't seem right to call it Socialist.

Until my conversation today with my broker.

I asked him about the reports that the cheapest plan was going to be $20k a year. He said that may be more or less true, but each of us will pay a premium based on our income, the balance of the $20k will be paid by the rich guy down the street.

From each according to his means, to each according to his abilities.

Scroom.

[GROTMAN]

It's not socialist.. it's called an Ineptocracy

“Ineptocracy” (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy)

It is defined as: “A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing.
And where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed are rewarded with goods and services, paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.”

[JohnR]

Well, it's both then.

[deadeye]

The government couldn't successfully run a lemonade stand, let alone something as complicated as this. Kinda gives a feller a warm fuzzy feeling that these guys are going to tell our doctors how to treat us. If we get upset about it the doctor will tell Big Brother who will then confiscate our guns. I don't know if socialist is the correct word.

[JohnR]

The "from each..." phrase is a Marx quote, so yes it's Marxist. Marxism is the first step toward Socialism, which is the step before Communism according to ol' Karl. It's a process. Like chewing, then swallowing, then digesting, the end results for eating and communism are both sh*t in the end.

[b4uqzme]

The "from each..." phrase is a Marx quote, so yes it's Marxist. Marxism is the first step toward Socialism, which is the step before Communism according to ol' Karl. It's a process. Like chewing, then swallowing, then digesting, the end results for eating and communism are both sh*t in the end.

And it's eating away at my gut... Thanks for the post and the clear/accurate description of marxism/socialism/communism... I'm gonna go read "Animal Farm" again.

I'm gonna use that term: ineptocracy. I like. Thanks.

[chrish]

What's worse is that amount is nowhere near enough to cover what's coming. Ask any actuary. Read what the actuaries have been saying. The 'uninsured fee' garbage will not be enough to cover the uninsured costs and many will continue to go without because the 'fee' is less than the insurance will be. Why not. With the pre-ex stipulation gone and the rate limits, you can pay your way until you have a catastrophic condition and then buy after the fact. Anti-selection is going to run rampant now.

And the pre-ex change are only ~25% of the cost increase that's coming. The rest are all the other benefits that are now required...i.e. the higher benefit levels required.

Basically, we are entering into health CARE FINANCING not health INSURANCE and we in no way financially prepared for that as a country.

The system is going to implode on itself. Which is by design. Just wait. The next round from DC will be 'see, we did not do enough, no we need a single payer system'. Boom. Full blown nationalized health care.

You think you don't have enough money for guns and ammo now, just wait. Every dime you have will be going to fund your health care and that of your slacker neighbor. Better stock up this year...

[downtownv]

Actually, it’s more like fascism. Socialism is where the government owns the means of production. In fascism, the government doesn’t own the means of production, but they do control it — and that’s what’s happening with our health care programs and these reforms.
One way or another....

[Barth]

Yes

How many full time employees will have thier hours cut to part time
thanks to OBUMMER?

What a sack of %^$&.

[AIRret]

America used to be a great nation!
I guess we are really close to the end!

[deadeye]

Chrish is right. This is nothing more than a major step toward socialized health care. They are well aware Obamacare won't work. These people are very crafty. Why people can't see it is beyond me. When they get complete control of our health care, they've got us. Offer a "free meal" to the 47% and they will come eat at your table. Not enough of the 53% will care until it's too late.

[JohnR]

It is indeed a step, a tripwire, toward a UK or Canada style system where the government owns and controls the means of production. They have to destroy the existing system (which actually would work very well without government meddling), to impose the Socialist system.

Why, other than a single-minded selfish tunnel-vision ideology, would anyone want this to happen? That's the question we need answered.

And in the spirit of the admin's wishes, what do we do to stop it? I know one doctor who chose to practice outside the insurance system. I haven't used his services (or those of any doctor in years). I do have insurance with a $35 co-pay, but I feel trapped. My wife insists on having tons of coverage "for the kids" even if we only really use it once or twice a year. I'd prefer catastrophic coverage and a visit to the cash guy for ordinary stuff.

[chrish]

Actually, it’s more like fascism. Socialism is where the government owns the means of production. In fascism, the government doesn’t own the means of production, but they do control it — and that’s what’s happening with our health care programs and these reforms.
One way or another....

give it time. it'll get there. see my prior post.

[chrish]

When they get complete control of our health care, they've got us.

Not me. I'll keep my private insurance until I cannot afford it and it puts me out of business (literally) and after that, I'll pay the penalty like a good law abiding citizen. Or maybe I won't, they cannot jail you for not paying it. But I will never take accept government check or participate in government run health care. If I cannot pay my way at that point, I will die with a clear conscience of whatever ailment I've developed.

[chrish]

It is indeed a step, a tripwire, toward a UK or Canada style system where the government owns and controls the means of production. They have to destroy the existing system (which actually would work very well without government meddling), to impose the Socialist system.

Why, other than a single-minded selfish tunnel-vision ideology, would anyone want this to happen? That's the question we need answered.

And in the spirit of the admin's wishes, what do we do to stop it? I know one doctor who chose to practice outside the insurance system. I haven't used his services (or those of any doctor in years). I do have insurance with a $35 co-pay, but I feel trapped. My wife insists on having tons of coverage "for the kids" even if we only really use it once or twice a year. I'd prefer catastrophic coverage and a visit to the cash guy for ordinary stuff.

John, same boat my friend, same boat.

The only way 'out' of the system is to spin yourself totally out. Doing what you said, pay cash, but less the catastrophic coverage is your only alternative at this point. Roll the dice. Under obamacare, buying catastrophic coverage and those policies are gone.

That assumes this all stands. When it starts getting REALLY bad, people are gonna start screaming and it'll either go back the way it was...or it'll go full-on government run, single payer. I'm hoping and praying for the former, then we can do things to REALLY reform the system that will work. Prohibition got rolled back. May Issue permits have rolled across this country in the last 20 years. So its possible freedom will return, albeit unlikely. But that is my prayer.

There are/were PLENTY of ways to fix what little was wrong w/ health insurance prior to this act of utter stupidity on the part of our government and the idiot voters that put them all in office. Government regulation is what CREATED the problem in the first place...not the doctors, not the hospitals, not the drug companies, not the consumers.