Illinois PD kills 95 year old WWII Vet.

[TheTman]

I've laid off these postings, but this one, is really bothering me, and won't let me sleep.

95 year old WWII Veteran, John Wrana was killed by the Park Forest Police, over refusing to have a surgical procedure.

The fuss was caused by Mr Wrana refusing to undergo a surgical procedure. From what I understand, the surgery only had a fair chance at doing any good, with the possibility it could cause no change, or make the problem worse. So Mr. Wrana was refusing the procedure, while the staff at his nursing home was trying to talk him into it. Someone called the cops, and around a half dozen show up. They have a terribly dangerous 96 year old 5'5" man refusing to submit to surgery, and raising a big stink.

I can't help but believe that when it's your own life, you shouldn't be forced into surgery you don't want. It doesn't say Mr. Wrana was senile or anything, so who is making him go through this? The nursing home? His Dr.? His Family. They whoever was responsible for ordering this, should have been there. I guess it depends on who has Power of Attorney over the man's health procedures. Still it was his own body, and he should have some say in what is done to it.

Anyway the cops end up shooting the man FIVE times with a beanbag shotgun, and killing him. The police say he had a knife, and was yelling that he was going to blow the whole building up and ranting and raving other nonsense, he was probably pretty pissed off. They did find a shoe horn that the cops were calling a machete. They found no explosives, I don't know what he was going to blow the place up with. Just sounds like one P.Oed SOB, that just wants to be left alone. .
Witness and staff say they never saw any knife, or other weapon. Mr Wrano did use a walker to get around, maybe he was threatening them with that.

This happened 5 months ago, and still nothing has been done about it, no investigation has been released or disciplinary actions or anything. The family has no idea what the story is. It probably took them quite awhile to work out a believable story on why the had to kill the old man.
That may p.o. some of you, I'm sorry, but this town is probably up around Chicago, and not much good happens in Chicago. It was known for it's crooked cops during prohibition, and I doubt if much has changed. Democrats control everything. It'll be Detroit in a few years.

I dunno, but it sounds like we got some macho men with a badge, that are going to teach this old man a lesson.

I like a line used in one of the stories. "John was ready to die for his country, not be killed by it."

No way do I see any "justice" being done here. Sounds more like a pissing contest. And you know who is going to win that. The Staff begged with the police to let them go in and calm the man down, but they repeatedly refused to let them speak with Wrano.

I am sorry, but someone needs to pay for what was done to Mr Wrano. I expect the guy that shot him 5 times, would be a likely suspect. Probably whoever ordered him to shoot. Surely you have the right to control what is done to your own body. Even if not having it means death, maybe at 95 he was ready to pass on.

What in the hell is going on, when you have crap like this happening. Why is all this obviously unnecessary force being used? It's like they are trying to condition us to accept this as normal, if you run afoul of the law. It's almost like they're the soldiers and we're the Iraqi's sometimes.
Next time your gun prints or sticks out from under your jacket and a cop notices, are you going to half a half dozen goon tackle you and secure your gun until they see you have a permit? This may be the only one I've posted, but something like this happens almost every day. Usually with a much younger man. This one with a 95 year old man vs. 6 cops, I just felt the need to post it. Maybe I can sleep now. You'd think they could have taken him alive. Maybe they got new bean bag shotguns and wanted to try them out. Who knows what the hell went on. The police have been sitting on this for 5 months, how about filling us in?

This doesn't mean I hate cops. I hate ANYONE that abuses any power they have over someone. Bosses, Managers, cops, civil servants. etc.
I like to see justice being done. Not playing courtroom legalities as it's turned into.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ww...#axzz2wUGuBncS


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-forest-police


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...aron-mangerson

[downtownv]

It looks like a case of "Death by Cop" intentional, by this old broken Soldier......

[jeepster09]

Don't mess with the GOVERNMENT they know what is best for you.:7:

[JohnR]

"Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there."
- Tom Joad

The one who shot him, I wonder how he sleeps at night.

[muggsy]

That's how I want to go out. In a blaze of glory. It ain't like he didn't live a full life. You know, Tman, if you quit reading these articles they wouldn't bother you nearly as much. I found out long ago that you can't fix everything that's wrong in the world. It was the doctors, not the cops who started all of this. Your own doctor is five times as likely to kill you as the cops are and that's a fact. Every operation has only three outcomes. You get better, you don't, or you die. We've all got to die for the next generation to have a chance at life. That's just the way it is. Someone a lot more powerful than us designed it that way. Sometime some very bad things happen to some very good people.

[SlowBurn]

Very sad. But in these cases we all tend to forget 3 immutable truths:

1. Media reports are unreliable. They are unbelievably slipshod. If you've ever been in anything the media reported you know. You read or hear reported almost a completely different event than the one you went through.

2. Somebody, who probably is now "shocked," called the police because of a dangerous, out of control situation they couldn't handle.

3. A police officer has NO duty to risk any harm in order to avoid injuring the subject. Like everyone else, their first duty is to their own safety. It always makes me crazy when someone complains about clubs, tasers, beanbags, pepper spray or whatever used to subdue someone who refused to comply with lawful orders, like its not a "fair fight." Its not a fight, or any type of sporting event.

Reportedly, this guy, armed with something sharp, was shot with beanbags from a 12 gauge 5x (4 of which hit) after threatening everyone to the point police were called, not complying with verbal orders, the taser was tried and failed, and pepper gas was considered but not used because of the danger to residents of the facility with respiratory problems.

Maybe the officer with the shotgun should have stopped after one hit, and maybe one hit wouldn't have killed the old guy. Maybe the cop is a sadist who likes to use old veterans for target practice. But maybe not. The devil is in the details we don't know.

I'm not going to jump and condemn based on whats out there. Let the process take its course and don't be too quick to judge.

[muggsy]

Very sad. But in these cases we all tend to forget 3 immutable truths:

1. Media reports are unreliable. They are unbelievably slipshod. If you've ever been in anything the media reported you know. You read or hear reported almost a completely different event than the one you went through.

2. Somebody, who probably is now "shocked," called the police because of a dangerous, out of control situation they couldn't handle.

3. A police officer has NO duty to risk any harm in order to avoid injuring the subject. Like everyone else, their first duty is to their own safety. It always makes me crazy when someone complains about clubs, tasers, beanbags, pepper spray or whatever used to subdue someone who refused to comply with lawful orders, like its not a "fair fight." Its not a fight, or any type of sporting event.

Reportedly, this guy, armed with something sharp, was shot with beanbags from a 12 gauge 5x (4 of which hit) after threatening everyone to the point police were called, not complying with verbal orders, the taser was tried and failed, and pepper gas was considered but not used because of the danger to residents of the facility with respiratory problems.

Maybe the officer with the shotgun should have stopped after one hit, and maybe one hit wouldn't have killed the old guy. Maybe the cop is a sadist who likes to use old veterans for target practice. But maybe not. The devil is in the details we don't know.

I'm not going to jump and condemn based on whats out there. Let the process take its course and don't be too quick to judge.

+1 Amen.

[getsome]

Sad story, sounds like suicide by cop alright....A couple years ago we did some renovation work in a nursing home and were there for most of the summer and it was just awful being there and seeing those old folks reduced to nothing and this was no dump hole, it was a very nice and expensive place.... I couldn't wait to get that job over with and get the hell out of there....Living in a nursing isn't living and I've made it plain to all my kids that if I ever end up in one with no hope of leaving then I demand that somebody bring me my pistol and if I'm too weak to pull the trigger then to help me do it....There's worse things than death....

[Longitude Zero]

It looks like a case of "Death by Cop" intentional, by this old broken Soldier......

Agreed. Suicide by cop is quite common. My concern is with the LEO and not the despondent antagonist.

[Longitude Zero]

Very sad. But in these cases we all tend to forget 3 immutable truths:

1. Media reports are unreliable. They are unbelievably slipshod. If you've ever been in anything the media reported you know. You read or hear reported almost a completely different event than the one you went through.

2. Somebody, who probably is now "shocked," called the police because of a dangerous, out of control situation they couldn't handle.

3. A police officer has NO duty to risk any harm in order to avoid injuring the subject. Like everyone else, their first duty is to their own safety. It always makes me crazy when someone complains about clubs, tasers, beanbags, pepper spray or whatever used to subdue someone who refused to comply with lawful orders, like its not a "fair fight." Its not a fight, or any type of sporting event.

Reportedly, this guy, armed with something sharp, was shot with beanbags from a 12 gauge 5x (4 of which hit) after threatening everyone to the point police were called, not complying with verbal orders, the taser was tried and failed, and pepper gas was considered but not used because of the danger to residents of the facility with respiratory problems.

Maybe the officer with the shotgun should have stopped after one hit, and maybe one hit wouldn't have killed the old guy. Maybe the cop is a sadist who likes to use old veterans for target practice. But maybe not. The devil is in the details we don't know.

I'm not going to jump and condemn based on whats out there. Let the process take its course and don't be too quick to judge.

Precisely.

[getsome]

(Quote from SlowBurn)...Media reports are unreliable. They are unbelievably slipshod. If you've ever been in anything the media reported you know. You read or hear reported almost a completely different event than the one you went through.

Exactly....When I went to bed last night Fox news had a retired general on Sean Hannity saying that both Boeing and himself knew for a fact that Malaysia Flight MH370 was safe on the ground in Pakistan....Another supposed expert had the flight going to Somalia.... Well this morning Fox is reporting possible debris found off Australia....Only missed it by 8000 miles or so....Do they just make this stuff up or what???

[Bawanna]

Truth is the Malaysian flight was taken by aliens. Sucked the whole package up into the mother ship. I don't relish the thought of what the aliens think of earthlings based on the contents of that plane but guess it's for them to decide.
Apparently they haven't spit it back out yet so maybe they like em.

[muggsy]

I said from the beginning that the plane suffered progressive system failures due to a catastrophic event like an electrical fire and the pilots changed course to return to the airport that they had left. I believe that they were subsequently overcome and the plane continued on autopilot until it crashed. The simple answer is usually correct and I'm pretty simple. I'm not sure that last statement came out quite right, but I'll stand by my hypothesis.

[TheTman]

"Let's not be too quick to judge." This happened 5 months ago. Why has there been no official statement issued? I think it's because they are trying to come up with a story that gets everyone out of trouble, and shows they did what they "had" to do, because "they were in fear for their life". Otherwise, why in the hell has it taken 5 months to issue a statement?
Supposedly he had a knife, that no one else saw it but the police. If he DID have one, it was probably a table knife he took from the dinner table.

They did find a shoe horn that they thought was a machete. I'll give you a possible suicide by cop, but you'd think if that was one his mind, he'd have done something to get shot with a real firearm. Maybe they did help the old guy out and put him out of his misery. But that's just someone's idea of what MIGHT have happened. Hell we could theorize until the cows come home, but who knows who's right and who's wrong. Maybe he was just there temporarily to heal up from a prior procedure and was looking forward to going home. I didn't see anyone mention that. Nope we immediately start looking at reasons to justify the incident.
I don't want to see any cops injured, but a half dozen cops against a 95 year old 5'5" man, you'd think they could have handled it without killing the man. I think the worst that could have happened is he smacked someone with his walker or cane or something. Cops seem to enjoy the reputation for the Macho aspect of their job and being "tough guys", yet they can't handle a 95 year old, without killing him, or causing injuries that ended in his death. Why didn't they let the staff go in and try to calm him down? They were well aware of the "risks" they were taking, and the cops were right there if he tried to harm the staff member. Here is a new story on the affair, only now he has a 12" blade "butcher knife". I wonder if the next story I read is going to have him wielding a samurai sword. If he was really wanting to commit suicide by cop, I think he probably would have lunged at the cops with whatever weapon he had and forced them to shoot him for real. Here is The story where they mention a 12" butcher knife.
http://wgntv.com/2013/07/28/autopsy-...forest-man-95/

Something isn't adding up, the "weapon" keeps changing, getting bigger with each story. You'd think that the cops had been through training on how to disarm a knife wielding thug, and it would have had to been much easier on a 95 year old man in a nursing home.
Does anyone really think the old guy was a danger to the police? They had riot shields to hide behind, and body armor, probably helmets. I doubt that anyone was in any real danger. I just find it sad, that you call police for assistance, and people end up dying. I wish they would ease off the macho military tactics, and try a more Christian approach when possible, like do unto others as you'd have them do to you. I wish Officer Friendly would make a come back.
No offense to our good LEO's here, but it seems that Officer Beat the Hell out of someone, has replaced Officer Friendly. I know that different situations call for different responses, but it seems Police just keep getting more and more aggressive. Someone suggested I not read these stories, and get outraged, but a link titled something like "Police kill 95 year old Vet", just kind of makes me curious. I've said it once, and will say it again, if we don't speak out against these abuses, they will only get worse. I see that some are already indoctrinated into police abuses being just a normal part of life. They don't have to be if people will speak out, and demand some changes be made. You just have to look at them case by case, some "abuses" are justified and even deserved, others are not, and still others are borderline.
I'd also like to see a civilian or two involved in police internal investigations. A defense lawyer or someone familiar with the law and competent to do the job. So police can't circle the wagons and make up a story where everyone did their job, and no one crossed the line. I'm sure not going to hold my breath until that happens.

[smo79]

Welcome to illinois land of confusion, corruption, and liars.