TWO Cops Shot in Ferguson

[DanTana]

The sad part of all of this is, the great divider could be doing things to ease tensions, instead he is provoking them. Why? Well, it's like the old magicians trick, misdirection, were busy watching those events, while liberty is being stolen in plain sight.

[diablo53]

So what I'm seeing here is a lot of blame the government. Blame the city gov't for being more white and not transitioning as the residents to be more black. Blame city and federal for not having more social programs to thwart young people from making bad decisions, and blame the federal gov't for backing the thugs instead of the city.

How about we blame some individuals for not being responsible enough to choose right from wrong? This might be the white in me talking, but it sure seems that's there's a whole group of people out there that perpetually refuse to accept responsibility for their individual actions.
And if you are offended by that last sentence then i know which group you belong to!!!

[SlowBurn]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...N02/150319564&

Nobody explains stuff like this as well as Thomas Sowell

[muggsy]

Thomas Sowell did a much better job of presenting my case. The AG has the blood of two police officers on his hands.

[ScottM]

I want to know which global domination consortium is responsible for conspiring to make us burn productive time debating things that'll change minds maybe one in 1000 times! [emoji18]

[deadeye]

1 in 1000? How many minds have you seen changed, including yours, on all the talking points- anywhere? It sure is fun though.

[ScottM]

1 in 1000? How many minds have you seen changed, including yours, on all the talking points- anywhere? It sure is fun though.

Well, you just changed my mind about my statistic. Doesn't that count? [emoji2]

Oh wait, that would make me a liberal with double-jointed vertebrae according to Muggsy, so I'm going to have to stick with my 1/1000 number. [emoji16]

[WMac19]

ok, ya got your popcorn and drink and watched the movie, "Selma", then you saw the tv coverage of the 50th anniversary, with your president walking across the bridge, so from that you might think that black folks vote because they won that right from the evil jim crow. well, not so much.
if Ferguson is 80% black, that can be divided into a minority group of middle class, taxpaying blacks that might vote and a larger, majority group of "jus be stayin", non taxpaying , don't care mistakes(also known as the "deads"). "deads don't vote, not registered, don't care and that's why it's so easy for the old white folks to continue their reign of terror in a burg like Ferguson. majority of (white)Ferguson cops are 10 years or less on the job, who hired them? see how that works? see how that can look bad now? it's all about appearance. instead of putting their heads in the sand and pretending it was still the 1950's, the leadership in Ferguson should have transitioned the town into something that works in 2015. progressive instead of regressive government--- waah! Muggsy, there's a concept. if the Ferguson PD would have taken some of their ill gotten revenue and spent it to get thug/mistakes/deads like Michael Brown into a "children at risk" program, they at least would have looked like "social workers" who were trying .
(here's an experiment about appearance, try this on the gun haters. go to http://www.ruger.com/products/sr556Standard/models.html and then go to http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14...eets/5816.html now which one is the more dangerous, probably used in mass murders? huh? see what a little wood furniture can do?

Sure appearances matter but addressing the issue isn't nearly as easy as one would imagine. Even in such a large and diverse city as NY and when tensions vs the police was very low, they have trouble recruiting worthy black candidates.

Unwritten rule on the department is that white applicants only remain on the eligible recruitment list until a class is filled and another exam is offered. While black candidates who pass the test remain on the list until age (maximum 35 w/o military experience) disqualifies them without ever having to take another exam.

Recruitment in black neighborhoods and schools is strong yet interest is minimal. In the early 90's I dated an "Applicant Investigator," she happened to be black. She filled me in on much of the process and much of her frustration. A proud, respectable and responsible woman, she demanded a semblance of the same in the candidates she processed regardless of race. Yet with each approaching academy class, she and other investigators were pressured as a matter of routine to increase approval of minority candidates, particularly black.

She followed the careers of many of her recruits. Easy as their applicant case-file, as was mine, is not "signed off" on for a couple of years after hire. Ridiculous. In her estimation, only about 50% of black recruits made it through probation with job intact whereas the vast majority of whites and Hispanics made it without event.

There's image and then there's suitability. Regardless the strong desire to diversify, adherence to basic principles of acceptable qualifications is a must. Then there has to be a reasonable and genuine interest to pursue a career in law enforcement. Simply not as easy as checking a box.

[diablo53]

Sure appearances matter but addressing the issue isn't nearly as easy as one would imagine. Even in such a large and diverse city as NY and when tensions vs the police was very low, they have trouble recruiting worthy black candidates.

Unwritten rule on the department is that white applicants only remain on the eligible recruitment list until a class is filled and another exam is offered. While black candidates who pass the test remain on the list until age (maximum 35 w/o military experience) disqualifies them without ever having to take another exam.

Recruitment in black neighborhoods and schools is strong yet interest is minimal. In the early 90's I dated an "Applicant Investigator," she happened to be black. She filled me in on much of the process and much of her frustration. A proud, respectable and responsible woman, she demanded a semblance of the same in the candidates she processed regardless of race. Yet with each approaching academy class, she and other investigators were pressured as a matter of routine to increase approval of minority candidates, particularly black.

She followed the careers of many of her recruits. Easy as their applicant case-file, as was mine, is not "signed off" on for a couple of years after hire. Ridiculous. In her estimation, only about 50% of black recruits made it through probation with job intact whereas the vast majority of whites and Hispanics made it without event.

There's image and then there's suitability. Regardless the strong desire to diversify, adherence to basic principles of acceptable qualifications is a must. Then there has to be a reasonable and genuine interest to pursue a career in law enforcement. Simply not as easy as checking a box.

Maybe the standards are too high. I mean there are a lot of "people" who SEEM ok with the black on black crime- since curtailing it in their own community doesn't seem to be of any importance. What would happen if the standards were lowered to allow a wider array of candidates? That would fix the problem right?

[WMac19]

Maybe the standards are too high. I mean there are a lot of "people" who SEEM ok with the black on black crime- since curtailing it in their own community doesn't seem to be of any importance. What would happen if the standards were lowered to allow a wider array of candidates? That would fix the problem right?

That depends upon what one's view of "the problem" is.

Is the problem lack of diversity? Standards too high? If it's both, to what limit is one orepared to go to improve appearances?

IMO, the standards with the NYPD are decidedly too low. I believe it only takes a 70 to pass a test that reads at an 8th grade level. Multiple arrests for misdemeanors is not grounds for disqualification. HS diploma or GED and two years worth of college credits isn't much either considering the laughable online college courses the department deems acceptable.

As for the physical requirements in the academy, it's a joke. It's not like FDNY at all. Although slackers who can't make the run or complete the calisthenics or climb the wall or drag the dummy, are continually threatened with disqualification, there they were next to me on graduation day (1991) with pitiful tears of pride streaming down their chubby faces.

Basically, all someone has to do is not commit a felony, pass the test, acquire credits through Empire State online, sleepwalk through the academy, pass the dummied down tests, then do the job and keep their noses clean.

Seriously, if they lowered standards any more the city would be in serious trouble.

When I graduated the academy in '91, the veterans' opinions was that in every group assigned to a command (in my case, 21 of us to the 49pct), generally there was one or two who appeared to fall through the cracks.

By the time I left in 2010, the general consensus was that there were only 4 or 5 good guys or gals in a similar sized group with the rest being questionable to ridiculous.

I was a union rep for my last 10 years. Union reps are less the rah-rah union guys one may associate with typical unions than they are the first line of defense for officers in a bind. My primary function was to be the first person called by an officer with a domestic issue, off or on-duty incident, arrest, etc... Before I'd push it up the ladder to trustees and attorneys, I was generally their to put out the fire or advise rights.

I can say unequivocally, I and my two co-delegates were much busier in my last few years than in my first.

Lower the standards and you lower the quality of applicants. Loved them and tried to help them all but I had many conversations with guys in trouble where I explained to them that they made a poor career choice.

I believe many qualified people are simply not attracted to law enforcement as a career for whatever reason. I sure wish it were different. If I had to list the 20 best cops I'd worked with over my 20 years, blacks and Hispanics would be well represented on that list. Some truly stellar officers.

[SlowBurn]

The practical outcome of trying to bend police departments to vague and unobjective standards like "diversity" "reflecting the community" etc is putting departments in the hands of people who are hostile or at best indifferent to actual law enforcement. Police business is then done according to favoritism and helping out cronies, with board appointments going to Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton wanabees and hiring of people who can't be bothered with actual police work. Thus cities like Chicago, Memphis etc sink deeper into the muck, official corruption is rampant, gangs are allowed to run the streets and the whole municipality becomes essentially something between a banana republic (Venezuela) and a 3rd world country like Nigeria. The only upside is once a place is sufficiently horrible, leftists find somewhere else to "protest". But the price is too high.

[Chuck54]

Did the AG or POTUS classify this as domestic terrorism? If they did I must have missed it.

[berettabone]

The practical outcome of trying to bend police departments to vague and unobjective standards like "diversity" "reflecting the community" etc is putting departments in the hands of people who are hostile or at best indifferent to actual law enforcement. Police business is then done according to favoritism and helping out cronies, with board appointments going to Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton wanabees and hiring of people who can't be bothered with actual police work. Thus cities like Chicago, Memphis etc sink deeper into the muck, official corruption is rampant, gangs are allowed to run the streets and the whole municipality becomes essentially something between a banana republic (Venezuela) and a 3rd world country like Nigeria. The only upside is once a place is sufficiently horrible, leftists find somewhere else to "protest". But the price is too high.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ well said.

[knkali]

The practical outcome of trying to bend police departments to vague and unobjective standards like "diversity" "reflecting the community" etc is putting departments in the hands of people who are hostile or at best indifferent to actual law enforcement. Police business is then done according to favoritism and helping out cronies, with board appointments going to Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton wanabees and hiring of people who can't be bothered with actual police work. Thus cities like Chicago, Memphis etc sink deeper into the muck, official corruption is rampant, gangs are allowed to run the streets and the whole municipality becomes essentially something between a banana republic (Venezuela) and a 3rd world country like Nigeria. The only upside is once a place is sufficiently horrible, leftists find somewhere else to "protest". But the price is too high.

wow never looked at it in those terms.

[ScottM]

Several epic, thoughtful posts from multiple angles in here. Excellent stuff.