Want to understand the Muslim Thing?

[knkali]

In one respect the religions of the world are a lot like guns. Both can be used for good or evil. It seems to me that we should be concentrating on eliminating the evil in the world instead of arguing religion among ourselves.

hard to do when discussing religious extremists.

[knkali]

free speech is supposedly limited only by the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example. Religious freedom should be similarly limited. If you follow a religion whose holy books say kill infidels and rape kids because its founder did, then your freedom should be limited. Your freedom ends when you infringe on my liberties.

bam!

[knkali]

TheTman summed it all up right here. Lets hope we don't get to this level:

"You realize we might be in for more trouble than we know. Someday they are going to bomb a ball game or concert or something, and if they do that, it might get ugly really fast. If they don't find someone to arrest quickly, Then there are a lot of hot headed people out there. They may get all riled up and decide to play rednecks n rugheads. People are already sick of crap, it won't take too much to push some folks over the edge of peaceful behavior."

This is when you will see people(Americans) being dragged into the street and barbaric acts committed on them without rule of law. This will be a critical juncture in history for us as a country. You will need to decide where you stand. Are you going to let these things happen to your neighbor(s) or are you going to stand for the constitution and the idea of a country that adheres to rule of law. Unfortunately, I think this day is closer than I or anyone would like.

[knkali]

Men commit atrocities in the name of religion. Religions aren't capable of doing anything on their own. I've never met a former military man so enamored with bashing his own country until now. The military must have really changed since I served. What country did you say that you flew for, Handy?

I don't see Handy as bashing his own country (in this thread--I have not read all of his posts on this forum). Instead, I see a person who is merely showing the large gray areas where many see only black and white.

The statement that religions are not capable of doing anything on their own seems contra to your past pontifications for the need to kill ALL Muslims. Have you tempered that idea or was your earlier cry for the eradication of Muslims used as hyperbole only? Or, did I misunderstand you?

[JohnR]

Good and evil behavior are choices, acts of free will. When your religion says to love your neighbor, and instead you kill him because he's different from you, you are failing to follow Christianity; you are an embarrassment to Jesus's word. When your religion says to kill Jews, and you kill Jews, you are following your religion, but I contend that such a religion is evil and should be eliminated. We don't have to kill the people who practice it (except in self-defense), just convert them to less Satanic ways. How, I have no idea.

I admit I don't follow all the Christian teachings. I'm not that good at visiting the sick and imprisoned, or feeding the hungry, as we're taught. Nor am I about to give away all my worldly possessions. But since the kingdom that matters is not of this world, we don't punish ourselves in this world for it.

[muggsy]

"I've never met a former military man so enamored with bashing his own country until now." Sure you have Muggsy. Remember "Lurch" Kerry. A fine example.

I try not to think about John Kerry.






Edited-refrain from the personal attack.

[diablo53]

So, Let me see if I understand what is being pushed back in our faces here. Since radicals are committing atrocities in the name of Islam and sharia law, we are wrong for wanting to refuse muslims free access to our peaceful nation because Islam is not the problem? We did not make Islam into a problem. We did not fabricate this whole jihadist movement. When the enemy announces the commonality of their cohesiveness, it is foolish to discount those ideals as a whole. Rather than the peaceful muslims being angry with the rest of the world's "intolerance" and "ignorance", why can't they correct their own problem? Here's why- peaceful muslims are backsliding muslims. They'd be condemning their own religion to stand up and fight against the radicalized factions that are "dragging Islam through the mud."

[berettabone]

So, Let me see if I understand what is being pushed back in our faces here. Since radicals are committing atrocities in the name of Islam and sharia law, we are wrong for wanting to refuse muslims free access to our peaceful nation because Islam is not the problem? We did not make Islam into a problem. We did not fabricate this whole jihadist movement. When the enemy announces the commonality of their cohesiveness, it is foolish to discount those ideals as a whole. Rather than the peaceful muslims being angry with the rest of the world's "intolerance" and "ignorance", why can't they correct their own problem? Here's why- peaceful muslims are backsliding muslims. They'd be condemning their own religion to stand up and fight against the radicalized factions that are "dragging Islam through the mud."

You are correct sir/maam...................they all read from the same book. You don't see very many other pull starts coming out and condemning any of this. They need to clean their own house, and fast. Whether they are the one's committing the crap, or doing everything and up to committing this crap, they need to be treated the same. In our country, doesn't matter what religion you pray to, do something stupid, take the ride.

[knkali]

Hmmm....so peaceful Muslims that do nothing to others including other Muslims are just as guilty as the Jihadists because they do nothing? Is that what you are saying? You really believe that? If they did something, would they still be considered peaceful? Maybe there is another definition of peaceful I do not know.

[diablo53]

Hmmm....so peaceful Muslims that do nothing to others including other Muslims are just as guilty as the Jihadists because they do nothing? Is that what you are saying? You really believe that? If they did something, would they still be considered peaceful? Maybe there is another definition of peaceful I do not know.

I have 2 thoughts about this.
1. What do you consider peaceful? Doing nothing and aiding the radicals by being submissive and complacent? Or actively searching out peace and making commitments to try to propagate peace throughout? Peace begets peace. -said no one ever!!!!

2. It's called guilt by association. It's real. Not all muslims are guilty.. I have a bigger issue with the people who have taken up cause for the sake of taking up the cause. There's alot of that going on in the US these days, and it's not going to end well.

[SlowBurn]

Hmmm....so peaceful Muslims that do nothing to others including other Muslims are just as guilty as the Jihadists because they do nothing? Is that what you are saying? You really believe that? If they did something, would they still be considered peaceful? Maybe there is another definition of peaceful I do not know.

I guess you could say the mother of the Tsarnaev brothers, the Boston bombers, is "peaceful and did nothing to others" except to radicalize her sons and encourage them to martyrdom, but morally she may even more guilty than them. I think we should keep people like that out if we can.

Jihad is the obligation of every Muslim. In theory, to the extent one is peaceful and does nothing to others, they're not Muslim, and vice versa. On a practical level the culture is such that there are many who wouldn't do anything themselves, but who support, or at least don't oppose, those who do. Evidently whole Muslim neighborhoods in Paris and in Brussels were well aware of what the jihadis were up to but didn't alert authorities, and afterwards celebrated the attacks. Its not a question of punishing them, but I wouldn't be concerned about collateral damage in those places if protecting them meant any greater risk to the good guys trying to get at ISIS. And I think we should try to avoid being infested with those types of neighborhoods here in the homeland.

[b4uqzme]

It's damned if we do - damned if we don't. I'd hate to get profiled too. I just got back from out of the country. What if I got arrested or turned away just because I'm American? But OTOH there is a war going on whether we like it or not and we better start acting like it soon or innocent Americans are gonna die. Nope. It's not fair but it's the way it is.

[Bawanna]

I guess I'm pretty easy. There is no place outside the US that I want to or have to go to for any reason. Unless my Marine gets in a jam and I have to go over to the sand box and bail him out due to the poser in chiefs lack of testicles.

You already get profiled when you visit foreign lands, make no mistake about that, it just isn't as big a deal since they don't have the PC police that we have.
They also have far less lawyers to stir the pot if you so much as look at somebody different.
I see the clock boy is sueing the city for 15 million. That's just perfect!

Lets risk all the other kids lives just to make sure we don't make a PC mistake on a kid named Ahmed. Have to wonder what his lawyers name is but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

[JohnR]

Hmmm....so peaceful Muslims that do nothing to others including other Muslims are just as guilty as the Jihadists because they do nothing? Is that what you are saying? You really believe that? If they did something, would they still be considered peaceful? Maybe there is another definition of peaceful I do not know.

If the Catholic Church hadn't reformed, and instead all the protestant split-offs had flourished and done overwhelming good, I would quit this church in a heartbeat and be a protestant rather than be associated with a religion of corruption and murder as it was in the Middle Ages. Instead, the Church does overwhelmingly more good than bad things around the world. It's not perfect of course, but at least they aren't murdering unbelievers.

In other words, Christianity is known by its good works, all the branches. There are hospitals, charities, you name it, all run by Christian churches. Can anyone name a Muslim hospital open to the general public? Are there Muslim charities that go downtown and feed the homeless? Do the Muslims do any good works for anyone but themselves? No, they fund Hamas and CAIR instead.

[berettabone]

Hmmm....so peaceful Muslims that do nothing to others including other Muslims are just as guilty as the Jihadists because they do nothing? Is that what you are saying? You really believe that? If they did something, would they still be considered peaceful? Maybe there is another definition of peaceful I do not know.

I am tired of ALL of the pull starts...........................screw around in your own country. Sit around and pray while people are being slaughtered and mistreated right next to them. None of them have the balls to do anything for anybody. The men are lazy, unwashed, smelly pigs, who treat their women like dogs. Do what you want over there, don't come here for any reason. Unless your willing to be vetted and change to our way of life. They all read the same book, which says slaughter all who don't believe in their religion. I do not feel sorry for any of them.