New Magnum Research 429 Desert Eagle Cartridge

[gb6491]

I'm just the messenger
https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/10...eid=61c083856f
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/bl...eid=61c083856f

[Bawanna]

Says it laughs at the 44 mag? No doubt only a matter of time before we see some revolvers for this too I reckon.

[yqtszhj]

Nice. Oooooh buddy, did you see the price on the rounds? Definitely have to reload those. Makes me feel better about the 10mm I’ve had a hankering for recently though. Always look at the good side. I can use that cost savings when explaining to the wife too.

[MrBlackCat]

I am just glad there is finally ANY pistol round between 50AE and 10mm Auto... Not that various gun manufacturers haven’t worked around this with revolver rounds, like Magnum Research, Coonan, AMT and others. I can’t wait to see IF another company chambers for this round second in an auto. With some knowledge of how the 440 CorBon round went, I am glad this is happening now under better conditions. I wonder if a BFR is likely for this round, other than as a custom build.


I will be ordering a barrel or barrels (6” & 10”) day one. Nothing on Magnum Research website yet though.


Can’t wait!


MrBlackCat

[CPTKILLER]

This is a niche cartridge just because you can.

[MrBlackCat]

This is a niche cartridge just because you can.

I suppose you are correct... even with the popularity of the 50AE, it is barely mainstream... I edited some of the "fan-boy-ness" out of my post.

I suppose it isn't the fact that 357 Mag and 44 Mag being revolver cartridges that deters gun makers from using them, because the companies that want to use rimmed cartridges, find a way that works reasonably. Even if niche cartridge, for myself, I am glad this is being done, and I will be buying the ammo for some time. And though I am not a re-loader quite yet, I keep all my big brass for when that time comes. When loading dies become available, I will get them for 429 also. Most likely, I will get a chamber reamer also if that becomes available.

So for me, this is a great opportunity to enjoy another caliber with the Desert Eagle. Look forward to performance and chrono-data soon after I get them.

MrBlackCat

[SkippyDP]

New Magnum Research 429 Desert Eagle Cartridge

Yes cannot wait, please post here when the .429 barrels become available #MrBlackCat



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[MrBlackCat]

I have ordered one... they have listed the 6" standard barrel in black. At least they aren't gouging us on the early run, like happens with some products.

Here is the page where I ordered...
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/ne...-barrel-black/

Now to get some ammo...

This is a niche cartridge just because you can.

This is very true when you think about it... and this is why it is a perfect match for a niche pistol which also was made just because they could.


MrBlackCat

Edit: Ammo is now listed on Magnum Research site...
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/429-de-210-grain-jhp/
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/429-de-240-grain-jsp/

[SkippyDP]

Fantastic Blackcat, now to work out how to get one imported. Good to see the reasonable price offering.
Thanks



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[MrBlackCat]

FInally got this in hand...


This isn’t a real/full review of the new .429DE Magnum caliber, so I won't make another thread. I will just put it here.
This is just some day one observations and experiences. No penetration tests. No accuracy over distance tests etc. This is just about function and a small chronograph sample.
The 429 compared... left to right, 9mm, 357Mag, 41Mag, 44Mag, 429DE Mag, and 50AE.


I got just a barrel in this case... not buying another gun, currently only offered in stainless with an internal muzzle brake, which effectively shortens the barrel. A shorter barrel is not what I want in a magnum handgun round. I want to give every opportunity for as much powder burn as possible. On a side note, there isn’t a 10” barrel planned in the 429DE, as all 10” barrels have been discontinued at this time. Sad. I will re-chamber a 10” 44mag barrel for the 429 as soon as chamber reamers become available though.

If you are only interested in ballistic test stats, they are at the bottom. Just skip the next two sections down to “Ballistics”.

Note that all below is based on an “out of the box” barrel. I will polish the ramp and chamber as I do on some of my barrels. Oddly, this is a two part barrel, which to my knowledge is only made this way in Israel. I’ve not seen a two part US made barrel before so I doubt this is made in the US. It also shares a gas cylinder perfectly in spec with my other Israeli made barrels, unlike any of my US made barrels.

Sharing magazines…
First... the 429DE round is stated to be magazine compatible with the 50AE. There aren’t any custom magazines planned I am told, but I might modify some 50AE magazines and designate them as 429DE. Here is why. This is a necked down cartridge from a 50AE case to hold a 429 bullet. (.429 is a 44mag actual diameter, for those who don’t know) There is a slight tendency, when the magazine is full, to nose down just a tiny bit, keeping it from heading up the feed ramp. This only happened once, on a full magazine. No other feeding issues were experienced.
Second… it is substantially more difficult to load the rounds into the magazine than 50AE. I use a loader with 50AE only when loading up 10+ magazines. But I broke out the loader after the first magazine in this case. Big deal? Not at all, just wanted to mention it, as it is different than anything I have experienced with a Desert Eagle.
Here is a shot of 429DE compared to 50AE in magazines...


Firing...
Try to avoid this scenario... if your gun is dirty from shooting a lot of cheap 50AE, target ammo... and you get exited because your new 429 barrel comes in... and you don’t even wipe the slide and springs, just so you can get some rounds across the chronograph... most of the cases MAY eject almost straight back over your head… or some of the time they will hit your glasses or head. Also, you might get some failures to return to battery... but just wiping off the slide and recoil springs and rods with two tiny sheets of Hoppes Lubricating Gun Oil Field Wipes, solves both of these issues, at least in my case. With that said, the 429 did not throw the best pattern of brass for sure. The 50AE, I can put a box to catch nearly all the brass when shooting from a rest. The 429 simply didn’t pile the brass as consistently... I expect this will change when I polish the chamber and inside of the locking lugs on this new barrel. It might be a break in issue, but I don’t wait for that with a Desert Eagle barrel. I don’t consider ejected brass pattern a problem, just something comparative that I noticed, and thought I would mention. Functionality was fine after I took 45 seconds to wipe the powder residue from the slide, frame, and recoil springs.
The 429DE is a rather “snappy” round for the Desert Eagle... I swear it has more “climb” than other calibers, but not sure how to quantify that. It felt like a 44 mag 10” barrel basically. It falls right in line between 44 and 50, as expected.

Ballistics...
I got some of the two loadings offered by Magnum Research under the name Glacier Ridge Ammunition – Magnum Research. One is a 210gr JHP, the other is a 240gr JSP.

Using a Caldwell chronograph... 14 rounds each.
The 240gr showed 1569fps average. (which puts it at 1312ft-lbs) deviation was 10.6
The 210gr showed 1697fps average. (which puts it at 1343ft-lbs) deviation was 10.4

For comparison...
Samson 50AE 300gr JHP showed 1429fps avg. (~1360ft-lbs) deviation was 22.3
American Quality 50AE 300gr JHP showed 1269fps avg. (~1072ft-lbs) deviation was 51fps
PPU 44Mag 240gr JHP showed 1362fps avg. (~ 988ft-lbs) deviation 22.1
Precision One 44Mag 240gr RNFP showed 1173fps avg. (~733ft-lbs) deviation 65.5

Just as the math would have shown, it has the energy of a 50AE in the diameter of 44 mag. The penetration must be crazy. I don’t do anything fancy like gel testing, but I do test with wood, paper, and other materials for comparison sometimes. This will be an interesting round to explore.


That is all I got for now.

Happy Shootin’

MrBlackCat

[SkippyDP]

MrBlackCat

Thanks for your time and for putting the results of your.429 testing and evaluation up so quickly.

I have contacted my DE importer to get an eta on the new .429DE 6” barrel.

Unhappy to hear that the 10” barrels are being discontinued. Are the 44mag 10” barrels still available?

What kind of 50AE mags do you have to be a 10+ capacity?
Maybe it’s just a simple magazine base extension?
What mag loader do you use?

I see you have the same problems with rounds hitting your forehead/glasses and was surprised to hear a simple wipe of the springs and rails eliminated the problem.

Have a great weekend!


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[MrBlackCat]

MrBlackCat

Thanks for your time and for putting the results of your.429 testing and evaluation up so quickly.

You are welcome.

Unhappy to hear that the 10” barrels are being discontinued. Are the 44mag 10” barrels still available?

No... 10" barrels in all calibers are discontinued. If any are listed (I think they have already been pulled) they are a VERY small existing stock. Most internet sellers drop shipped Magnum Research barrels in my experience, so even if listed elsewhere it is unlikely they actually have them. I was told that no 10" barrels are being produced. I was told they had a few 10" left, but only with special finishes (chrome and nickle maybe) left a few days ago.

What kind of 50AE mags do you have to be a 10+ capacity?
Maybe it’s just a simple magazine base extension?
What mag loader do you use?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant loading ten or more magazines at a time, not like ten round magazines. I only have 7 round factory magazines, and loading ten of them in a row makes me appreciate a simple load assistant. I have come across a couple of those 10 round for 44 and 50, but they didn't function really at all... I could never get through a full magazine without a failure of some kind with them.
I don't know what brand this magazine loader is... I will see if it has a name on it, but I think it is 3D printed. It is just one of those simple push-down types. I got it with some things I bought a while back, used, so I don't remember a brand.
The loader I use... is hard to read, it was sold to me with in a lot I bought with other things, but this must be where it came from...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAE-Industr...8AAOSwKQFbtWnK
Here is mine...

I see you have the same problems with rounds hitting your forehead/glasses and was surprised to hear a simple wipe of the springs and rails eliminated the problem.

(Not specifically about the 429, but a general post I often repeat)
There are several things that can cause flat ejections (over the slide). Yes, sometimes it is because the gun is allowed to rotate too much effectively making the top of the gun face your face, so the guns up is not straight back... mostly that gets repeated on the internet by keyboard warriors though, just like limp-wristing causing "most issues", also mostly BS for another thread, but back to topic... the flat ejections I received, and the failures to return to battery were caused by the slide not being able to move freely. Drag on the slide causes more delay, and then too much of the gas impulse is absorbed getting the slide started. Then, in the later part of the slide acceleration, the slide movement in this case is kind of half hearted, even if it makes it far enough back to get another round from the magazine. Ideally, you want it to JUST barely bottom out, for a full run forward for the momentum to get that bolt rotated in hard. So called "limp wristing" is simply a multiplier for an issues like excess friction (from powder residue) and a couple more issues I was able to eliminate from my Desert Eagles.

One characteristic of this slightly necked cartridge is that it can wobble a bit more going up the ramp and may end up popping into the chamber ahead of the extractor claw, if the slide isn't very smooth. Then, the energy it takes to defeat the extractor claw spring, to pop it over the rim of the case is quite high. This is the most common issue I have found (in all calibers) that causes failure to return to battery. To test this, just ease your slide down on top of a chambered round and you can see this in action.
Further, imagine that the bolt lugs are trying to rotate into place behind the receiver lugs and the front of the extractor claw is hitting the shell. Not only does the claw need to rotate against the brass, it need to be forced outward over the rim of the cartridge during this rotation. Polishing the claw and a very tiny modification I do to mine eliminate this to the point of a really dirty slide and springs. All that grit of powder debris can really slow down a slide... and more lubricant just makes it gummier. I run all of mine with very little lubricants.

With all of this said, my 429 case ejections were not consistent as with all other calibers, but I also polish and de-burr most barrels. I will do a close inspection of the 429DE barrel today and see if I can improve this a bit. In my experience, ejection consistency should be correctable. This 429DE ammo must be hand loaded as it is the most consistent I have ever put across my chronograph... probably the most expensive also. The point being that if any ammo is able to pile its brass well, it should be this.

I will try to add pictures later.

MrBlackCat

[SkippyDP]

Thanks for your time and detailed answers to my questions. I appreciate the detailed replies especially as it really helps when trying to identify any problems.

The mag loader you pictured is definitely 3D printed. If it works, then all is good, I need a similar item as I know what you mean about loading a few mags at once. The other eBay one might be worth a try....

I will try honing the chamber and ramp, make your claw mod and see if the .357 runs better. The feed ramp is rough and FTF is not uncommon. The .44 is polished and runs fine with good hand loads.

Do you video in slow motion from the side and see how the slide reciprocates?

If the 10” & 14” barrel options are discontinued now, they will become default collector items. [emoji848]







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[GarrettJ]

I think MRI is missing the boat on this one. Published velocities are around 1600 fps, which MrBlackCat was kind enough to validate. One goes to this type of cartridge to gain velocity. The .440 Corbon gave a published velocity on a 240 gr. bullet of closer to 1800 fps. That would be a good enough reason to go to the bother and expense of getting a different barrel/cartridge/etc.

The only problem here is that we can already get pretty darned close to 1600 fps. with a 240 gr. bullet in a Desert Eagle with a .44 Magnum. Offering the .429 in a ported barrel helps with recoil management, but also gives you effectively only a 5" barrel to work with.

In the past I have chronographed Federal 240 gr. JHP out of a 10" DE at 1550 fps. And I expect I can do as well with a standard 6" barrel (actually, mine is a 7.5" barrel. I had the 10" tube cut back and threaded for a silencer several years ago). I was trying to prove this today, using a book load of H110 with a 240 gr. XTP. Unfortunately, it was extremely overcast and a bit drizzly. I got out and tried shooting, but it was not light enough for my chronograph to get good readings. In 7 or 8 rounds, I only got one reading in the DE, which was 1465 fps. I also brought along a 10" T/C Contender, which I was able to get a single reading of 1621 fps.

I also have some other loads using Li'l Gun powder, which I'll try the next chance I get. I expect to get slightly higher velocities from that one.

So the question is whether the minimal gains provided by the .429DE are worth it as compared to the .44 Mag. Seems like going back to a 10" barrel would give the same results, with less effort.

Or maybe once this thing takes off, we will get some of the bullet & powder manufacturers running pressure test barrels and come up with some safe loads that produce velocities in the 1700-1800 fps. range.

I'm hopeful, anyway.

Of coures, just getting something because it's new or different is sometimes all the excuse we need.

[MrBlackCat]

I think MRI is missing the boat on this one. Published velocities are around 1600 fps, which MrBlackCat was kind enough to validate. One goes to this type of cartridge to gain velocity. The .440 Corbon gave a published velocity on a 240 gr. bullet of closer to 1800 fps. That would be a good enough reason to go to the bother and expense of getting a different barrel/cartridge/etc.

I agree with this... this wasn't my reason for getting the new caliber however.
Just the numbers... you ever shoot Buffalo Bore ammo in any caliber? They generally lean toward heavy bullets for energy of course. While I have never tried their 44 Magnum, I have shot their 357 Magnum, and WOW does it do exactly what they say it will. It was obviously far and above anything else I have put through my Desert Eagle in 357 Magnum.
The point? Buffalo Bore has a jacketed 44 Mag round with a 270gr bullet making 1460fps/1,260 ft-lbs. So to me, we are not at the potential of this round with this case. Of course this is the first and only loadings right now... I don't see Buffalo Bore picking up an obscure ammo like this any time soon.

The only problem here is that we can already get pretty darned close to 1600 fps. with a 240 gr. bullet in a Desert Eagle with a .44 Magnum. Offering the .429 in a ported barrel helps with recoil management, but also gives you effectively only a 5" barrel to work with.

This is where it kind of breaks down for me... I don't reload of course, but help me understand this. How does a 50AE get a 300gr bullet out of the same length barrel at 1430? I don't have the chronograph records in my phone, but I am positive I have put some 50AE 300's out a good bit over 1500 from a 6" barrel. (Underwood maybe?) I DO have this one I just shot from a 10" DE... Samson 300gr JHP at 1641fps/1794.13ft-lbs.
The point? Shouldn't that super-light 240gr (comparatively!) easily make WAY over the 300gr 50AE's 1500+fps?

So the question is whether the minimal gains provided by the .429DE are worth it as compared to the .44 Mag. Seems like going back to a 10" barrel would give the same results, with less effort.

This is what I thought as well, when thinking in the context of extremely expensive rounds... if you are going to spend that much on ammunition (as a non-reloader) then just use something like Buffalo Bore and a 10" barrel.

Or maybe once this thing takes off, we will get some of the bullet & powder manufacturers running pressure test barrels and come up with some safe loads that produce velocities in the 1700-1800 fps. range.

I'm hopeful, anyway.

On a virtual "wildcat" round like this, would this be expected? I don't know much about how that works. How much of this can be safely done with math vs real world? I have read some on the subject of load development, but that is the "How it should be world" vs the "How it is world".

I will remain hopeful someone comes up with some "serious" rounds for this caliber. While it isn't a slouch, a new caliber for a Desert Eagle is going to need to be more than "just because" as you stated above.

I am for developing a new line of Desert Eagles with new magnum rounds all spec'd to 60,000+ PSI... higher pressures is what makes the 454, 460 and 500 so powerful.
/BS On
Can you imagine the advertisement for that? "Got a Zombie Apocalypse, a Terminator from the future, or a Dinosaur from the past bearing down on you? Need a little more than your old Desert Eagle? WELL WE HAVE THE GUN FOR YOU! The all new Desert Eagle Ultra-Magnum Line! Forget the 50 Cal! Ultra-Magnums feature all new Ultra-Magnum (trademark) calibers that make the 50AE feel like a "9"! Pick up yours, with both hands, TODAY!"
/BS Off

Anyway, lets wait and see what comes out for this thing in the coming months. I will have a chamber reamer made for the .429 if I can't get one from Magnum Research in the next few months. Then I will see what we can get from a 10" barrel.

Thank you GarrettJ for your cents as a loader and a Desert Eagle guy... I always look forward to your posts.

Happy Shootin'
MrBlackCat