Winchester Bonded PDX1 for the PM9

[cgpeanut]

Hi, I was wondering what's the verdict on the Winchester Bonded PDX1 specifically the Supreme Elite S9MMPDB 9MM Luger +P 124 grn as a defensive ammo. Is it true they are built specifically for 3" barrells or it it just a sales pitch?

Edit: Thinking of using this as my defensive ammo for the PM9. I have the Speer Gold Dot 115 grn hollow points and Hornady Critical Defense for my Ruger SR9c

[chrish]

i personally, and some will probably call me a girly man, did not enjoy shooting +P from my PM9 whatsoever. i shot quite a bit of PDX1 124 +P during the break in, but boy was it not fun after a couple 20 round boxes. hand hurt, the snap became unbearable after awhile. it took all the fun out of it.

i dropped back to the PDX1 147 and LOVED shooting the PM9. after that, ultimately decided to loose the PM9 in favor of a P9 and liked 147 so much that's what i've stuck with. i now shoot/carry PDX1 147 and range practice w/ WWB 147 JHP (although i'm looking at a bulk order in a cheaper alternative in the super-x or usa 147 FMJ).

anyway, ymmv, but i didn't care for +P in these smaller, lighter pistols.

-chris

[cgpeanut]

I'm guessing +P might promote premature wear on the PM5 if used exclusively. That said I think youre right and just use 147 grn after the breakin, but 147 grn is not readily available locally so the best bet is to buy online and buy in bulk which will require an ammo fund.

I'm convinced that your practice round should be the same weight as your defensive round. Oh well, this might give me the excuse to shoot all the 115 grn 9mm I have stored, and try some heavirer weight specifically for shorter barells man, so much to consider just to be sure your primary carry gun goes BANG everytime

[Micha2u]

Winchester Bonded PDX1 for the PM9

Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 9MM Luger +P 124 grain is what I have loaded for my everyday concealed carry. After shooting several of the personal defense loads available, this is the one that I happened to feel was the best.

[JFootin]

i personally, and some will probably call me a girly man, did not enjoy shooting +P from my PM9 whatsoever. i shot quite a bit of PDX1 124 +P during the break in, but boy was it not fun after a couple 20 round boxes. hand hurt, the snap became unbearable after awhile. it took all the fun out of it.

i dropped back to the PDX1 147 and LOVED shooting the PM9. after that, ultimately decided to loose the PM9 in favor of a P9 and liked 147 so much that's what i've stuck with. i now shoot/carry PDX1 147 and range practice w/ WWB 147 JHP (although i'm looking at a bulk order in a cheaper alternative in the super-x or usa 147 FMJ).

anyway, ymmv, but i didn't care for +P in these smaller, lighter pistols.

-chris

Who cares if your self defense carry round is snappy? It is not range fodder. Too expensive to be shooting boxes of it, anyway. And in a s.h.t.f. situation, you're not going to be shooting 40 rounds and you're not going to be worrying about your hand hurting. Shoot enough of it to ensure proper feeding and functioning in your gun, then just shoot your mag(s) of the carry load when you start a range session, then reload with your range ammo for the rest of the session, and reload with carry ammo after you clean your gun.

I do want to try some of that standard pressure 147 grain HP ammo, though. I like the idea that the heavier bullet allows a little more time for the powder charge to burn in these short barrels. And, I bet it is more of a push and less snap than lighter, faster ammo—sort of like 45 acp.

[chrish]

i agree, because of the expense, not practical to shoot that much of it at the range. but i prefer to shoot what i carry to keep the feel as much the same as possible. the +P was snappy enough that i could never get comfortable with my follow-up shots. i know, more practice, but then i'm buying more expensive +P rounds for practice and that gets expensive. ultimately decided i liked the feel (as you mentioned, the 'push' feel of the 147 vs the snap) and preferred shooting the 147. i very much feels like shooting a 45. i also tend to hold the argument that the 147 is a better SD round b/c of the weight and that the new bullet tech like the PDX1 in 147 is every bit as good as lighter +P. so why not convert to it, which was my ultimate decision.

[cgpeanut]

Thanks for the info guys, NEVER occurred to me that our kahrs are NOT range guns but SD guns designed for s.h.t.f scenario.

BUT from what I read the diameter of the bullet on the PDX1 is a tiny tad bigger to account for the beneficial delay on our short barrels question now is, with this increase in diameter contribute to the inside of the barrel pealing and if so will kahr honor the warranty.

[jocko]

that bullet is not going to effect the inside of the barrel. If u get barrel peeling, it is a bad plating job not the fault ofthe round. Kahrs are range guns IMO, whynot. I shoot what I carry the most, mind u I donm't shoot it as good as my G19 but I sure don't consider my kahr a personal carry only gun. If I can't shoot it like I stole it, I don't want the fokker. Makes no sense to me. how does one get competent with his defense gun. some of these other gun forums talk about their defense small guns as shoot seldom and carry often guns that is pure unadulterate bull sh-t IMO. That PDX is a good round it will not harm your kahr or for that matter any gun. These ammo makers sure in the hell are not going to make a round that cause issues. makes no sense either.

[joshh]

winchester rep told me the 147gr was made for 3" barrel. he said the +p with the lighter loads are a waste of energy because the bullet is out of barrel before the load is spent. i did some fun tests w/ the pm9 and the 147gr performed best and was/is great to shoot.

[Bill K]

I've seen a number YouTube tests on 147s and 124 +Ps and the results give me enough pause to be concerned about the increased penetration that the 147s appear to be getting over their lighter but faster 124 +P brethren. The 124 +Ps seem to be getting more expansion.

[cgpeanut]

Here's one where the Winchester PDX1 9mm 124Gr JHP falied

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxK2zhD16kQ&feature=fvst

[jocko]

whatr failed, ???? the gun went bang, the round expanded comletely. Might not look like u wanted b ut rememberhe shotin a bucket of water to. I see no faiilure there. BG would have been deader than hell. sure wouldnot be avideo criteria for meto say no to that round. They guy looked like a fokking jerk anyhow--

[cgpeanut]

I guess the guy was saying the bullet went thru and did not stay inside which makes it possible for the BG to still attack.

[chrish]

this could turn into a 147 grain argument, hope not, but i didn't settle on either specifically for expansion and penetration. i think the bullet design in both PDX1 rounds are find SD rounds, i just chose the slower heavier bullet based on how it felt shooting from my p9 (and originally the pm9). the tests are subjective somewhat, denim, no denim, multiple layers, no layers. no test is ever going to mimic reality and as long as they consistently expand (which the PDX1 does in all tests), i think that's all you can hope for. maybe i'm wrong. dunno. but i more want to be super comfortable putting MULTIPLE rounds into my target as quickly as possible and the 147 is what (in the end) allows me to do that quickly, repeatedly, accurately.

as stated, pick your gun, pick your round, and shoot the daylights out of it until you never miss.

[TriggerMan]

Here's one where the Winchester PDX1 9mm 124Gr JHP falied

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxK2zhD16kQ&feature=fvst

There's no way to know how early that jacket separated from the lead. It IS a failure when it does so. You plan on penetration of less than 14 inches and you get almost twice that...not good. Quality SD rounds do not split apart.