Some Ammo Test Results For PM9s & K9s

[jg rider]

Since I'm new here I think I should contribute what I discovered

Here's some old PM9 test results I did several years ago with wet packs and 4 layers of denim. The paks were made per instructions to come as close to ballistic gelatin as possible. These represent 5 shot results. These were what we preferred of all the brands and weights we tested. +P ammo was too uncontrollable. Wife and I each conceal carry PM9s during the warm weather. She likes the Win 147 RA9T because of the lower felt recoil of all we tested, for double / triple taps, and so do I. The heavier the bullet, the less the felt recoil. We tested things like Win. Black Talon, Win. bonded stuff, Speer Gold Dots, Hornady Tap and some I don't remember. All these others had mixed results from being uncontrollable to going through 24" of wet pak. When I retested the over penetrating rounds through a 4 1/2" G17 barrel the results were better because of the higher velocity, but I still prefer the 147 HST/RA9T stuff.

[jg rider]

In the winter we each carry K9s. She still uses the Win 147 in her's, but I use Fed 147 HST in mine.

[jg rider]

Here's more K9 results

[JFootin]

Man, that's impressive stuff. I've been wanting to try some 147 grain loads. Some have posted about failure of the slow 147s to expand. They were using gallon jugs of water, I think. Could the four layers of denim be enhancing expansion beyond normal conditions? I mean, who wears four layers of denim? If it were just a T-shirt, might we have seen some failure to expand?

[jg rider]

Man, that's impressive stuff. I've been wanting to try some 147 grain loads. Some have posted about failure of the slow 147s to expand. They were using gallon jugs of water, I think. Could the four layers of denim be enhancing expansion beyond normal conditions? I mean, who wears four layers of denim? If it were just a T-shirt, might we have seen some failure to expand?

Hi JFootin
The 4 layers of denim is / was the FBI standard to be placed in front of ballistic gelatin. They are testing to make sure that the denim doesn't plug up the bullet cavity so it couldn't expand and to make sure that penetration was adequate. To the FBI penetration was more important than expansion since the 1986 Miami / Dade county shoot out. I believe that bullet weight retention was another factor.
If you look real close at my photos you'll see some denim fibers on the mushroomed rounds

[mr surveyor]

nice work.

If you don't mind me asking, who's wet pack design criteria were you using?

And, do you have the wet pack to gel penetration ratio numbers?

I've been "planning" to do some wetpack testing myself, but just too lazy to properly do the wetpack build.

Thanks for sharing


surv

[Thunder71]

Great info, thanks!

Just ordered 100 Federal HST's, thanks... thanks a LOT, grrrr.

Picked the 124 standard pressure based on these findings, I'd imagine your results may have been similar but I didn't see the 124 tested in the PM9 in the test above.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/...t-1196741.html

[jg rider]

nice work.

If you don't mind me asking, who's wet pack design criteria were you using?

And, do you have the wet pack to gel penetration ratio numbers?

I've been "planning" to do some wetpack testing myself, but just too lazy to properly do the wetpack build.

Thanks for sharing


surv

Those tests were done a long time ago. I went through my bookmarks fast and came up with this

http://www.frfrogspad.com/wetpak.htm

[Roncodrummer]

PM 40 ammo

Does anyone have any input on recommended ammo for a Kahr PM40? I am using Blazer 180 gr ball ammo for break in/target, but I'm looking at CorBon 135 gr for personal defense. Any suggestions?

[TucsonMTB]

Does anyone have any input on recommended ammo for a Kahr PM40? I am using Blazer 180 gr ball ammo for break in/target, but I'm looking at CorBon 135 gr for personal defense. Any suggestions?

I have had good luck with Winchester Ranger 135 grain Q4368. Even at $24 per box from Midway at this link, it is less expensive than CorBon.

I believe the bullets CorBon uses are a very similar in shape and their rounds have about the same overall length, so they should feed well too.

Best of luck! Let us know how it all works out.

[Bill K]

Those are some scary looking petals. How can you look at results like that and feel 9mm is inadequate for SD?

[jg rider]

Great info, thanks!

Just ordered 100 Federal HST's, thanks... thanks a LOT, grrrr.

Picked the 124 standard pressure based on these findings, I'd imagine your results may have been similar but I didn't see the 124 tested in the PM9 in the test above.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/...t-1196741.html

I think I have them but I forgot to post them

[jg rider]

nice work.

If you don't mind me asking, who's wet pack design criteria were you using?

And, do you have the wet pack to gel penetration ratio numbers?

I've been "planning" to do some wetpack testing myself, but just too lazy to properly do the wetpack build.

Thanks for sharing


surv

I finally found the wet pack to ballistic gelatin formula.
Penetration into wet pack is supposedly only 2/3 of what it is in gelatin.
Example:
So 10" pen. in wet pack is 15" in gelatin
10" / 2 = 5"+ 10" = 15 or 10" X 3 / 2 = 15"

[flieger67]

Thanks for sharing those pictures. It's really interesting to see what the rounds look like and how they expanded and penetrated.

Did you notice any propensity for the jackets to separate with any of the ammo?

[jg rider]

Thanks for sharing those pictures. It's really interesting to see what the rounds look like and how they expanded and penetrated.

Did you notice any propensity for the jackets to separate with any of the ammo?

The jackets all stayed intact. There was no sign of any of them attempting to separate. There was a little weight loss with the Win. 147s as stated in the pics.