.380 or 9mm?

[Ljutic]

Being a pocket pistol guy, I've always wondered what the real terminal performance differences were between a 380 and 9mm when shot from the typical mouse gun length barrels. I didn't see much info available online so I decided to start my own testing program. I ended up using the DB380 and DB9 as my test guns due to their very similar barrel lengths. There is only a .2" difference between the 380 and 9mm. I could have used the PM9 and P380, but with a .5" difference in barrel length it introduced another variable I was trying to control.

I'm open to rerunning a test using the Kahrs if you guys have any interest. I know Jocko would like to see the Corbon DPX tested this way.

So far, I've done three head to head tests. Each lives on it's own blog entry so feel free to click through on any that are of interest to you.

Hornady Critical Defense:
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...-acp-test.html

Federal Hydra-Shok:
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...-9mm-test.html

Speer Gold Dot:
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...test-with.html

[josp]

As always, excellent information.

[jocko]

380 ammo has come a ong waya than 25 years ago, no doubt about that, another reason why so many 380 models are being offered today. It certainly is much better than the 32. I would not choose it over a sub 9mm like what kahr offers and a few others but it is no slouch round today either. Nice work Ljutic..

[CrazyLarry]

The Speer GDHP and Hornady FTX 9mm certainly appear to have penetrated deeper and expanded slightly better than the comparable 380 from the same manufacturer.

I would then argue, is there a difference in "follow up shot" that would make one handgun a better choice over the other based on caliber? Some small 380s are more "painful" than the next size larger handgun chambered in 9mm.

Or in the case of a Kahr, a P380 could be more recoil than the MK9 which is 2x as heavy.

[OldLincoln]

One thing I keep coming back to is the non-technical side of the equation. Compare the 38 Special, 9mm and 45 in the Hickok45 video. I currently carry a 9mm mostly IWB and will move up to a 45 when my planets align.

[jocko]

crazy larryt and old lincol

The Speer GDHP and Hornady FTX 9mm certainly appear to have penetrated deeper and expanded slightly better than the comparable 380 from the same manufacturer.

I would then argue, is there a difference in "follow up shot" that would make one handgun a better choice over the other based on caliber? Some small 380s are more "painful" than the next size larger handgun chambered in 9mm.

Or in the case of a Kahr, a P380 could be more recoil than the MK9 which is 2x as heavy.

two very good points.

For me I would not pocket carry an MK series kahr with the sole thought that my follw up shot willbe better. I think I would be able toovber come that part with my P380 even. I really do shoot it good at 5 yards, surprises me to hell I never shot a 380 yet that was as compforatble as my PM9 that is for sure. I just have zero issues carrying my P9 where ever I go, so my P380 sits 98% of the time "loaded" but no where to go


I can't speak from experience but I really don't think a BG wants any part of any person who is carrying a gun, be it a 32, 380, 9 or what ever. He just doesn't as there are to many other easy victims out there to pray on. Just sayin

[Bill K]

Thank you so much. I love watching and learning from ballistic tests and yours are so very well done. I was particularly interested in what you've posted because I pocket carry both .380 (p3at) and a 9mm (PM9). Also, I load CD in my .380 winter time and then switch out to GD come warmer weather. I've been concerned about ballistics performance with HP out of a .380 going through heavy winter clothing which is why I carried CD last winter and hard cast truncated cone previous winters. Your tests suggest I'd be good to go with either GD or CD all year long.

I know I could calculate foot pounds from your stats but it would really have been nice if you provided that information. Energy dumped into the target, along with penetration and expansion, is in my opinion a very important stat to consider when selecting a SD caliber gun and what particular ammo in that caliber to carry.

Thanks again... Three thumbs up!

[kerby9mm]

two very good points.

For me I would not pocket carry an MK series kahr with the sole thought that my follw up shot willbe better. I think I would be able toovber come that part with my P380 even. I really do shoot it good at 5 yards, surprises me to hell I never shot a 380 yet that was as compforatble as my PM9 that is for sure. I just have zero issues carrying my P9 where ever I go, so my P380 sits 98% of the time "loaded" but no where to go


I can't speak from experience but I really don't think a BG wants any part of any person who is carrying a gun, be it a 32, 380, 9 or what ever. He just doesn't as there are to many other easy victims out there to pray on. Just sayin

When I shoot my mk40 first then go to my mk9 and p238 the latter 2 feel like 22's. As to the 380 the p238 is very comfortable to shoot.

[Dmitri]

Ljutic,

Thank you very much; great (and well-presented) info as usual.

I have an unrelated question: how come one of them actually gained weight?



Is it just a measurement/equipment error, or...?
The only explanation I can come up with is that the original weight was 115.5 or so, instead of the specified 115?

Just curious...

Thanks

[Ljutic]

I know I could calculate foot pounds from your stats but it would really have been nice if you provided that information. Energy dumped into the target, along with penetration and expansion, is in my opinion a very important stat to consider when selecting a SD caliber gun and what particular ammo in that caliber to carry.

Thanks again... Three thumbs up!

Hey Bill. When I did my big 380 test last summer all I reported was velocity and calculated energy. There were a bunch of folks that told me that the calculated energy number was meaningless and terminal performance was all that mattered. So that sent me down the terminal ballistics path and you are right that I've stopped reporting calculated energy. It won't be a big deal to add that back in on the stat sheet with the recovered bullets. Thanks for reminding me that some folks do care about that stat.

I will say the block jumps more when you smack it with a 9mm instead of a 380. I think the final weight of each block is about 16 lbs.

[Ljutic]

Ljutic,

Thank you very much; great (and well-presented) info as usual.

I have an unrelated question: how come one of them actually gained weight?


Is it just a measurement/equipment error, or...?
The only explanation I can come up with is that the original weight was 115.5 or so, instead of the specified 115?

Just curious...

Thanks

Error in measurement? From Me? Are you serious???????

I measured it several times as I hate when things don't add up correctly. It was probably due to a bullet that started out over weight. There's not really any way to tell the starting weight without pulling the bullet and reloading it, which opens up way too many other variables.

I also wash and dry each bullet before weighing. SIM-TEST is water soluble so it washes away. I did notice the 380 hydra shok post had trapped a denim thread when it bent over that didn't wash away so I just left it there for the weigh in.

Good question!

[Ljutic]

Thank you so much. I love watching and learning from ballistic tests and yours are so very well done. I was particularly interested in what you've posted because I pocket carry both .380 (p3at) and a 9mm (PM9). Also, I load CD in my .380 winter time and then switch out to GD come warmer weather. I've been concerned about ballistics performance with HP out of a .380 going through heavy winter clothing which is why I carried CD last winter and hard cast truncated cone previous winters. Your tests suggest I'd be good to go with either GD or CD all year long.

I know I could calculate foot pounds from your stats but it would really have been nice if you provided that information. Energy dumped into the target, along with penetration and expansion, is in my opinion a very important stat to consider when selecting a SD caliber gun and what particular ammo in that caliber to carry.

Thanks again... Three thumbs up!

Data sheet from my latest test of ammo. I went back to .32 at reader request, but did add the calculated ft/lbs to the recap sheet. Thanks for the suggestion.

The full article is here if anyone is interested. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...shoot-out.html

[Deano]

Great work. Thanks for posting these results. I'm curious. I carry Federal HST which I was under the impression is a different (and better) bullet than Federal Hydra Shock. Have you tested the HST? The Hydra shock 9mm didn't seem to perform very well in your test.

[Yogi 117]

Great work. Thanks for posting these results. I'm curious. I carry Federal HST which I was under the impression is a different (and better) bullet than Federal Hydra Shock. Have you tested the HST? The Hydra shock 9mm didn't seem to perform very well in your test.

Here ya go Deano, the Federal HST performed quite well. I love his tests comparing the different rounds. Happy Reading.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...emium-hst.html

[wyntrout]

The bullet is usually not weighed before being fired and the listed weight could have a tiny variation. There are 7,000 grains in a pound and most scales don't have ZERO variation with respect to accuracy! 0.4 grains could be a lot when working with near maximum magnum-type loads for a pistol, but for lead/copper bullets... it's not very much and within the accuracy variation of the scale, I'm sure!

Then, again, sometimes there's a bit of gel or denim or other test medium mixed inside the expanded bullet!

Wynn