Atomic 9mm ammunition

[timmy]

anybody ever use this stuff in their cm/pm9

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/218...oint-box-of-50

after not haveing much luck local finding good SD ammo and not wanting to pay $30 a box for Remington Golden Sabers or Federal hydra shoks at the few shops I go to I was looking at midway and figured I would throw some SD ammo in on my order and found this stuff

[downtownv]

link check....

[berettabone]

Venturammunitions................................. ........have seen sabers for cheaper than that..........

[timmy]

try this I was on mobile when I posted

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/218...oint-box-of-50

midway product #218860 if link still does not work

[Tomac]

Try places like SGAmmo.com , I recently purchased 50rd boxes of Hornaday's Critical Duty for $27/box plus shipping:http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol...ition/9mm-9x19 .
Tomac

[Barth]

Personally I'm not going to risk my life on some unproven SD ammo.
Going cheap on self defense is a bad idea.

[timmy]

Personally I'm not going to risk my life on some unproven SD ammo.
Going cheap on self defense is a bad idea.

well it has to be better then the Winchester SXZ I have now that I got for free awhile back

[Chuck54]

Check "Lucky Gunner" site

[Tomac]

Personally I'm not going to risk my life on some unproven SD ammo.
Going cheap on self defense is a bad idea.

Q: Exactly what constitutes "proven" SD ammo?
Tomac

[Barth]

Best of the Best

Q: Exactly what constitutes "proven" SD ammo?
Tomac

Ammo that has a positive, long and voluminous track record in actual shootings.
US Federal and State agencies spend big bucks on ammo testing.
They record and analyze actual shooting results on a grand scale.
Following their lead, and using real duty ammo, just makes sense to me.

IMHO - Winchester Ranger T-Series, Federal HST & Speer GDHP
are best of the best.

[muggsy]

anybody ever use this stuff in their cm/pm9

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/218...oint-box-of-50

after not haveing much luck local finding good SD ammo and not wanting to pay $30 a box for Remington Golden Sabers or Federal hydra shoks at the few shops I go to I was looking at midway and figured I would throw some SD ammo in on my order and found this stuff

I'd want to know more about the company and their quality control practices before running their ammo through my gun.

[Yogi 117]

Ammo that has a positive, long and voluminous track record in actual shootings.

IMHO - Winchester Ranger T-Series, Federal HST & Speer GDHP
are best of the best.

+1...totally agree!

[Tomac]

Ammo that has a positive, long and voluminous track record in actual shootings.
US Federal and State agencies spend big bucks on ammo testing.
They record and analyze actual shooting results on a grand scale.
Following their lead, and using real duty ammo, just makes sense to me.

IMHO - Winchester Ranger T-Series, Federal HST & Speer GDHP
are best of the best.

I'm not calling you out here, but would you mind clarifying specifically what makes a "long track record" hard data for determining effectiveness?
I ask because there's no such thing as "stopping power" as it can't be measured or reproduced scientifically.
So, are you talking reliability of a certain brand/type (ie: no misfires/duds), accuracy, "stopping power" or what? The military has been using FMJ for a lot longer than JHP's have been around but I don't think any of us would consider that an endorsement for using FMJ instead of a quality JHP.
Tomac

[Barth]

Would you mind clarifying specifically what makes a "long track record" hard data for determining effectiveness?

"US Federal and State agencies record and analyze actual shooting results on a grand scale."

Grand Scale =
Thousands of state and federal law enforcement shootings, coast to coast,
over the course of years, demonstrating the effectiveness, or lack there of, of various duty ammunition.

[Tomac]

"US Federal and State agencies record and analyze actual shooting results on a grand scale."

Grand Scale =
Thousands of state and federal law enforcement shootings, coast to coast,
over the course of years, demonstrating the effectiveness, or lack there of, of various duty ammunition.

Seen any breakdown of this "hard data" that determines exactly what makes one round more effective than another? Again, too many variables for statistical analysis. A lowly .22 may stop someone w/a single shot in one incident whereas (for example) a 9mm w/quality JHP make take a dozen hits or more to achieve incapacitation.

Barring CNS shots and psychological stops, the only way to stop a determined and aggressive BG is shutting down the brain from oxygen deprivation due to bleedout.
Simply put, given the same aggressive & determined BG and identical hits with different calibers/bullets, how much difference would we see in bleedout rates? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Enough to alter the outcome of the encounter?
If it's not enough to alter the outcome of the encounter then it makes no difference if the BG passes out "sooner" in the ambulance or "later" in the ER.

There are many documented cases of BG's taking multiple hits from handguns w/o immediate incapacitation. I'll say it again; all handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramout, all else is secondary. Expansion is desirable to the extent it enhances blood loss but there's no scientific evidence demonstrating if differences in bleedout rates is enough to alter the outcome of an encounter.
IMHO, I'll take a less expanded bullet that reaches the blood-bearing vitals over a more expanded bullet that may not (remember Platt and the expanded 9mm Silvertip that stopped 1" short of his heart during the infamous Miami Shootout?).
Tomac

For your reading pleasure:

From
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
FBI Academy Firearms Unit
Page 12

An issue that must be addressed is the fear of over penetration widely expressed on the part of law enforcement. The concern that a bullet would pass through the body of a subject and injure an innocent bystander is clearly exaggerated. Any review of law enforcement shootings will reveal that the great majority of shots fired by officers do not hit any subject at all. It should be obvious that the relatively few shots that do hit a subject are not more dangerous to bystanders than shots that miss the subject entirely.

Also, a bullet that completely penetrates a subject will give up a great deal of energy doing so. The skin on the exit side of the body is tough and flexible. Experiments have shown it has the same resistance to bullet passage as approximately four inches of tissue.

Choosing a bullet because of relatively shallow penetration will seriously compromise weapon effectiveness, and needlessly endanger the lives of law enforcement officers using it. No law enforcement officer has lost his life because a bullet over penetrated his adversary, and virtually none have ever been sued for hitting an innocent bystander through an adversary. On the other hand, tragically large numbers of officers have been killed because their bullets did not penetrate deeply enough.