+P+ vs +P

[HadEmAll]

I started feeling mildly guilty about using Winchester Ranger 115 grain +P+ in my PM9, so bought some Corbon 115 grain +P to compare velocities.

This morning, 75 degrees, 5 round averages, PM9:

Winchester 115grain +P+ 1200 fps on the money. (Last range session I was getting 1217 fps)

Corbon 115 grain +P 1222 fps

The Corbon fed, fired, and ejected just fine, so I'm now carrying it in my PM9. Not sure I'll reorder any since it and the Win appear to perform about the same, but at least temporarily I'm going by the book.

[jocko]

nice report. I wonder if this +P+ sh-t is not way over hyped to suck us gun nuts in. Evidkently in ur tests the corbon +P held its own.

[OldLincoln]

I read on the internet.... that +P+ doesn't have a standard and so can be whatever they make it. However, I've also read that Buffalo Bore +P+ is very hot and not recommended in Kahrs.

[jocko]

ur dead right, so I quess they can actualy take their standard hot rounds and repackage it in a fancy box and call it "the penetrator" and we will pay $5 bucks more for the box over the same rounds in a cardboard plain box. My my the power of advertisng..

I don'tthink kahr or many others recommend +P+ ammo due to just what u stated. If here is no parameters to the round etc, then why should the gun maker get involved with it..

[HadEmAll]

My my the power of advertisng..

There's a lot to that. I once heard of an Asian guy who had never made pistols before, but wanted to get started. He figured that if he called his new pistol line something that sounded German, people would associate that with precision and be more likely to buy these handguns. He came up with something that sounded like car. Can't remember the final name.

[jocko]

can u give me a better clue???

[HadEmAll]

From an interview by Massad Ayood to Justin Moon:

Ayoob: Where did the name Kahr come from?

Moon: When it came to marketing the pistol, I did not feel that Saeilo would be a "catchy" name to put on my gun. I wanted a name that was short, easy to remember, and symbolic of the high quality of manufacture. Given Germany's renown for engineering prowess and quality, I wanted a name that sounded German. That's how I came up with "Kahr."

[getsome]

Well at least he didn't go with Fordoomensnokeinboomerhardiner....Kahr is fine by me...

[HadEmAll]

I KNOW Jocko was being tongue-in-cheek about the clue, sure he knew the story well, but I did see somebody on here the other day say "Mr. Kahr, I'm not happy" about progress on his returned pistol, so thought I would give the story.

Amazing that he was so up front about the "fake" name.

[Ikeo74]

Back to the subject: "P" stands for PRESSURE. It has nothing to do with "velosity" except usually when you have more pressure you get more velosity. Now +P means the ammo when fired creats pressure at the high end of recommended pressure for that cal of bullet. Now, pay attention here, +P+ loads when fired create internal pressures "over" the recommended safe limits of the caliber of the bullet you are shooting. This does not mean it will develope more "velosity" than a +P load. It means it will develope more "PRESSURE" than a +P load. So, it comes down to this, when you are shooting +P+ ammo you are not improving on the effectiveness of that bullet. It means you have a greater chance of the increased pressure causing damage to you or your gun by a gun failure because of the increased pressure. Now the kicker here is this:
+P+ is a "WARNING" that this ammo may cause damage to you or your gun. It is not a bragging comment that this ammo will outperform regular pressure or +P loads. That is why gun manufactures "DO NOT" recommend +P+ ammo.

[Ikeo74]

Before you buy +P+ ammo make sure your gun can shoot it. Only modern firearms are strong enough.

[TheTman]

Why buy ammo that has no standards, could be anywhere from standard pressure up to whatever they decide to go with. If I was going to try +P+ I think I'd make my own ammo, and experment with a few more grains at a time. I'd want to test it for accuracy, and FPS/FPE.

[jmurch]

IMO 100% reliability on an SD gun overrides anything else. If the second round won't chamber it's a club. Fancy sights (on an 7yd SD gun?), designer ammo, etc. have no place (again IMO) on an SD gun.

[ltxi]

IMO 100% reliability on an SD gun overrides anything else.........

Which argues for a revolver. Or, just possibly, at least a Glock.

[LaP]

[QUOTE=jmurch;105778] If the second round won't chamber it's a club. QUOTE]

I consider it a rock. I throw it at the bad guy.

Go with a revolver.... there's a good reason for the old saying:
"Five for Sure."