Point Shooting

[skychief12]

I was reading Col Applegate's book on the "point shooting technique". Anyone have any experience with this?

BTW, the title is "Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back"

[jocko]

never read his book but with my xs big dot on my pM9 at 10 yards and under it is all about seeing the front sight fast and clearly. The other stuff just tends to fall in placw with point shooting. About like shooting a shotgun. The barrel tends to go where your eyes look. In a defense situation, I think point shooting is much much faster and u can get extremely accurate with it to.

[mr surveyor]

I haven't read the book, but am familiar with the term "point shooting". Unfortunately, it seems lately to have taken on two very different definitions. The one I am familiar with is that "point shooting" is a combination or instinctive "aiming", using nothing but a seasoned familiarity with the firearm and the front sight.....basically "pointing" the handgun as if it were a good fitting, shouldered shotgun. Fast, combat accuracy. The second defination floating around, using the term "point shooting", is the act of laying your index finger (as if "indexing") along the side of the pistol, activating the trigger with the middle finger, reducing your grip to the ring finger and pinkie. This method, supposedly" causes the shooter to "point" the pistol the same as if pointing with the index finger. Personally, I prefer the former defination of "point shooting" rather than the latter.


surv

[jocko]

definitely go with the "instinctive" aiming, that finger stuff, never worked or felt comfortble to me..

[mr surveyor]

which brings me back to the question of the current definition of "point shooting".

[jocko]

i

which brings me back to the question of the current definition of "point shooting".

think this finger pointing thing has just popped up in the last few years, so I tend to go with your first definiition of point shooting. Really makes no difference as to what the definition is, as both are basicaly different method. Guess one call each one what ever he wants...

[mr surveyor]

yeah, the first definition is what I adhere to.... just wasn't sure what Skychief's book referenced to.

If the book refer's to what Jocko and I believe to be "point shooting", then I'm fer it. If it's the silly notion of placing your index finger on the frame along side the slide and firing with a two (in my case 1-1/2) finger grip, then I'm agin it.

There, that's my opinion


surv

[jeep45238]

Point and shoot without using the sights. Can be from any shooting position, be that by the hip, or fully extended, depending upon the circumstances.

I pretty much point shoot during IDPA matches, hardly use the sights. Treats me quite well out to about 15-20 yards, standard notch sights with a fiber optic front tube.

[Bawanna]

If Applegate had anything to do with it it was your first definition. He wasn't into any of this silly stuff and that 3rd finger trigger talk is just that, silly.
I think point and instinctive could be interchanged without notice.
Usually point shooting doesn't even involve sights at all, you shoot from the hip, or somewhere between there and sighted firing, familiarity with your weapon as Mr. Surv stated.

I guess if ones trigger finger were gone for whatever reason that 3rd finger shooting might be way better than no shooting at all but thats the only application I can think of. My 3rd finger ain't exactly up to snuff yet since that run in with the table saw last january so I'm taking good care of my correct trigger finger.

[jocko]

I do think that when we say point shooting, we in our sight picture see that front sight, just that we do not concentrate on it but on the target and at close range that is OK, out alittle further one needs to see that front sight clearly and the rest (back site and target) will all fall into place.

I shoot alot of skeet and it is all about point shooting but one always see's the end of the barrel in his picture also.

By the way I shoot skeet about as good as I shoot my PM9. It has to be those fooking guns, can't be me..

[skychief12]

If Applegate had anything to do with it it was your first definition. He wasn't into any of this silly stuff and that 3rd finger trigger talk is just that, silly.

Exactly Bawanna45cal. Col Applegate is talking about a continuum of aiming techniques based on the distance to the target. At the closer ranges he suggests focusing on the target only and describes how to bring the gun online without looking at the sights. Fine trigger control goes out the window using what he calls convulsive muscle contraction. He progresses to using the sights at longer ranges alone the continuum. He explains how to adjust to the bodies natural response to the stress of being in a gunfight. He uses the term "combat shooting" as opposed to "target shooting". His techniques were developed for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) who were the basis for the Army's Special Forces AKA Green Berets.

[earle8888]

Agreed with Bawana, then your clarification, illuminates Applegates def, YEP!!! thats what CQC/Combat/ instinct shooting is.
I believe OSS was predicessor to the CIA

[Bawanna]

My mentor and hero Jeff Cooper was in the same era and areas as well. He also has several books discussing some of these things and the evolution of changing shooting strategies.
Ironically I did'nt care for the guy at first, thought he was an arrogant know it all but as I read his work and got addicted to Coopers Corner which I still sorely miss I found that he was quite intelligent and really did know it all. Everything he spoke he researched and experimented with.
He was quite opinionated (no crime there) and well rounded. Into sports cars, ballroom dancing, all kinds of stuff you wouldn't possibly associate with Jeff Cooper.

[skychief12]

So what I take from this is that some of you actually use these techniques and they are worth my trying to acquire.

[Bawanna]

So what I take from this is that some of you actually use these techniques and they are worth my trying to acquire.

Just my opinion but yes. Any skill that you can add to your defensive tool box has to be a good thing. It's just like people that focus on hits at 25 yards, thats great and to strive to attain that is a good thing.
But you also need to practice shooting at arms length holding a guy by the throat with one hand fast from the holster. Just an example, anything possible in real world settings. It's often said that a defensive shooting will happen very close and fast.
In lieu of my current transportation that most likely won't change anytime soon I'm limited to some of the stuff vertical people can practice. I've often longed for a wheelchair that could go sideways. The big plus to an electric is I can shoot and move to a certain degree. Sadly my left hand while just as nice looking as my right doesn't do anything right. I tried moving my controls to my left side so I could shoot right but I'm like a drunk driver.