Isosceles or Weaver?

[BuckeyeBlast]

How do you shoot, how do you train, and why? Ever been in a real gunfight? (police/military)

Looking for info and discussion, not a fight.

[ltxi]

Modified Weaver. Don't exactly train anymore. Regular range practice and reliance on experience and instinct. Yes.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Modified Weaver. Don't exactly train anymore. Regular range practice and reliance on experience and instinct. Yes.

"Yes." lol

So, how about some details, specifically were you in any particular 'stance'?

I guess what I'm looking at is training for a fight. Obviously, in my civilian life I'm limited as to what I can do, but still wonder if I can turn my time range time into something that might actually be useful if needed. I've traditionally shot Weaver, but have been trying to train towards Isosceles during my IDPA/USPSA shoots. I wonder if I'm doing the right thing. When SHTF, the targets are actually shooting back, and you go on instinct as much as training, do you go to the stance where you're squared up to the threat, or do you go to the stance where you're minimizing your profile and putting an extra half-step of distance between the threat?

[JimBianchi]

I was a life-long (25yrs) modified weaver user, and after taking a point shooting course 4yrs ago (with my MK9!) I am a convert to point shooting.

One handed, off-handed, waist-high, back pedaling, from the ground, all of it. (I have to end the day on the ground. My hip will not allow fast-off the ground moves. Maybe after the replacement in Aug!)

Point shooting is faster more deadly at the close ranges seen in SD situations.

I train only point shooting now for SD. Lots of ammo down range, lot and lots of dry fire practice and thousands and thousands of airgun pellets also. (for backyard/garage training)

I the past few years I have nearly more total rounds down range than the previous 25yrs. Airguns/airsoft makes it cheap/easy to train at home.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Ya know, I've never thought about Airsoft for at home - that's a good idea.

[ltxi]

"Yes." lol

So, how about some details, specifically were you in any particular 'stance'?

I guess what I'm looking at is training for a fight. Obviously, in my civilian life I'm limited as to what I can do, but still wonder if I can turn my time range time into something that might actually be useful if needed. I've traditionally shot Weaver, but have been trying to train towards Isosceles during my IDPA/USPSA shoots. I wonder if I'm doing the right thing. When SHTF, the targets are actually shooting back, and you go on instinct as much as training, do you go to the stance where you're squared up to the threat, or do you go to the stance where you're minimizing your profile and putting an extra half-step of distance between the threat?

I don't consider "Yes" to be a laughing matter. Nor do I care to share lethal encounter details in a public forum. I'll leave that to the sociopaths.

As to the rest, my opinion....Competent instruction tailored with thought to your personal self/comfort has much value. Beyond that if you're fortunate, or unfortunate, enough to have hands on experience you go with what's kept you alive before as modified by anything learned. What you do not want to do when a situation reaches critical mass is to have to start thinking about what you're doing, how you're standing, or what you're gonna do next.

[Rainman48314]

Just opinion

How do you shoot, how do you train, and why? Ever been in a real gunfight? (police/military)

Looking for info and discussion, not a fight.

From reading what experts have put into books, you default to your training, you don't rise to the occasion. One source said stance goes out the window immediately in a real gunfight. You can't train enough.

[Thunder71]

Neither, I'll go all Chuck Norris on them before they know what hit 'em dodging bullets Matrix style.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I don't consider "Yes" to be a laughing matter. Nor do I care to share lethal encounter details in a public forum. I'll leave that to the sociopaths.

Lol at the shortness of your answer, not that it's happened.

As to the rest, my opinion....Competent instruction tailored with thought to your personal self/comfort has much value. Beyond that if you're fortunate, or unfortunate, enough to have hands on experience you go with what's kept you alive before as modified by anything learned. What you do not want to do when a situation reaches critical mass is to have to start thinking about what you're doing, how you're standing, or what you're gonna do next.

Let me put this another way - when your mystery experience happened, did you revert to your training or what you're most comfortable with instinctively.

Seems most firearms trainers I've encountered teach isosceles. I'm more comfortable weaver. I'm wanting opinions on whether it's worth it to train and increase my comfort level with isosceles, or just stick with how I react instinctively.

People say time and time again that you fall back on your training, but there's a lot of real life situations were people also fall back on instincts. I wonder what's more common?

[Chowser]

A modified IsoWeaver stance

Basically, start with Iso which brings your full front body armor up front, then us right handers move our right foot back a little towards a weaver stance.

i am kind of squaring off with the target like i am getting into a fight, but still trying to keep an iso stance to keep my body armor up front. give them the biggest target i can that is protected.

[ltxi]

Lol at the shortness of your answer, not that it's happened.



Let me put this another way - when your mystery experience happened, did you revert to your training or what you're most comfortable with instinctively.

Seems most firearms trainers I've encountered teach isosceles. I'm more comfortable weaver. I'm wanting opinions on whether it's worth it to train and increase my comfort level with isosceles, or just stick with how I react instinctively.

People say time and time again that you fall back on your training, but there's a lot of real life situations were people also fall back on instincts. I wonder what's more common?

Despite being rather pissed off by your characterization of my life experiences as "mystery", I'll answer your question before I completely back out of this thread because I believe you're sincere.

The short answer to both of the options in your question is yes. And it's not just about handguns.

I have limited patience for most expert trainers for hire. If you're lucky, or smart enough to do your homework and you have the option, you first get to depend on having good/competent training. If you survive after that you develop your own sense of what works for you...and then that's just where you instinctively go the next time. Please get over worrying about all this one stance or another crap and just go with what feels right for you.

With sincere thanks to my first combat firearms NCO instructor without who's essential and expert advice I would most likely not be alive today.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Despite being rather pissed off by your characterization of my life experiences as "mystery", I'll answer your question before I completely back out of this thread because I believe you're sincere.

The short answer to both of the options in your question is yes. And it's not just about handguns.

I have limited patience for most expert trainers for hire. If you're lucky, or smart enough to do your homework and you have the option, you first get to depend on having good/competent training. If you survive after that you develop your own sense of what works for you...and then that's just where you instinctively go the next time. Please get over worrying about all this one stance or another crap and just go with what feels right for you.

With sincere thanks to my first combat firearms NCO instructor without who's essential and expert advice I would most likely not be alive today.

Jeesh man, yeah- I'm sincere. I asked for your input and you said you would't blab it on the internet, so I called it a "mystery" event. "Mystery" aka unknown, aka secret, etc... nothing intended to get anyone pissed about.

Anywho - thanks for your input.

[ltxi]

Sorry about that. I mistook your use of the term mystery as sarcasm and reacted....probably badly.

[johnh]

Modified isosceles with leg on strong side slightly back. I prefer that stance when running long guns, so keep it consistent and do the same when shooting handguns. Some guys say you cannot turn as fast from that stance, but I learned to pivot on the balls of my feet quickly in other pursuits, so that point seems moot to me.

Someone mentioned airsoft. I am a strong proponent of using gas blowback airsoft pistols for practice. They lack recoil, but do let you practice many other aspects of shooting without needing a range. Ammo is cheap, and the guns are too. This is not a substitute for shooting real firearms, but a supplement.

[oldjarhead]

I think it is true you will revert to how you have been trained. I have seen a lot of dash cam videos, in training sessions and on youtube. It appears that under high stress, most of the cops I saw on the videos were shooting back with some type an isoceles stance, but were usually moving, so they would not be an easy target. Arms thrust out, isoceles style. I have never been in a gun fight, and hope I never will be, but it seems logical to me that thrusting your gun and arms toward the target under high stress seems logical to me, rather than trying to get into a good weaver. I am sure there are folks out there who could, but I think the iscoceles would work better for me.