What causes the cracks in the mags?

[CJB]

more thoughts....after more reading here....

Tooling, work hardening, variable metallurgy, or pistol variables.

E. All of the above.

I've done my share of manufacturing oversight. Its a wild ride to keep things right. No matter how simple you make it, somebody is gonna find a way to screw it up.

[Orphanedcowboy]

Well the replacement mag arrived today. It is slightly different than the originals.

[jocko]

in what way??> a photo would be very nice..

[jocko]

especially in

CJB:
To your point and as I mentioned before, a minor scratch on the tooling that's used to bend/form the shape could transfer to many, many mags in a high speed manufacturing process.

Once a large amount of mags are accepted from a vendor, and later found to have some defects in use, the only choice would be to have a recall or deal with it on an individual bases by replacement.

It seems Kahr has decided to replace any that prove defective in use.

I'll ask anyone who have delt with this issue, has Kahr asked for the GUN to be returned or just the mag??

Again, a stress point could be so small as being undetected with the naked eye.

Orphanedcowboy: Thanks for posting.

Tilos

magazaines, they are not gonna recall them, evenif they know some are bad, as "wheredo they start". They will replace bad magazines as long as they are sent back, I have no doubt about that. They itis not abuse but a defect of some some sort. I don't know who makes kahrs mags but they are stainless, they don't seem cheap in qality but yet something is causing this splitting and it is neve rin the welds. Companies that makes magazines normaly know how to make good magazines, that is their job, we have seen badmagazinesfor at least over 2 years, so I just ain't buying "poor" steel or bad batch. Just assiming here maybe more than I should to, but I still tend to think it is more gun related and I can't prove that at all..

[Orphanedcowboy]

Pictures:









Changes I noticed:

They moved the engraving up the side

The cut at the rear is larger

The radius on the back corners is bigger(not as tight where it is formed and also cracks)

The round count windows are actually lined up now

The edges of the lips are smoother, more polished feeling

The magazine it self feels grainy, like it could use a little longer in the tumbler

I also noticed the first round, last round loaded, the rim sets in the groove under the rim of the second round on both mags and no matter how hard I tried I cannot get it to seat flush with the back of the mag. This pistol has been flawless with every round fired though so it doesn't seem to bother the pistol as much a it bothers me.......

[Tilos]

Thanks for posting the pics

What I noticed right away, is the different number of round count holes (5-6).
I real visual que to ID "old and new", for us and Kahr.

In the rear view, the new mag seems smoother where the rear cut out transitions into the lips, where as the old looks pinched on the left, in the same area.

Me thinks Kahr as depleted their "last batch" of mags and now have/ship something better.
Tilos

[Orphanedcowboy]

Bought a couple more "K420" mags from Midway and they are the new style as well:

[JimC]

It seems Kahr has decided to replace any that prove defective in use.

I'll ask anyone who have delt with this issue, has Kahr asked for the GUN to be returned or just the mag??

Again, a stress point could be so small as being undetected with the naked eye.

Orphanedcowboy: Thanks for posting.

Tilos

I'm a little late to respond but after reading this thread a couple of times, I decided that I would.

Yes, I had two mags split in the usual fold area on day one using my PM9.

Yes, Kahr paid the return shipping of my PM9 and the split mags. They insisted on having the PM9 returned and would not just replace the mags even if I returned the damaged mags first.

They found nothing wrong with the gun itself.

Out of 5 mags used that day, the two split after 425 rds. using all 5 mags.

The first mag split after firing approx. 256 rds. The second after 385 rds.

Both mags had far less than those numbers but they were in that initial round count.

Thankfully, I have not experienced any further mag failures with my PM9 since but, rest be assured, it's always on my mind.

When I examinded the mags after the splitting, there was no visible indication near the top of the split that there had been any abnormal contact between the slide and the mag.

These are the mags in question.




This is the report from the Kahr Technical Service Work Sheet

Problem Reported:
SPLITTING MAGAZINES, 2 MAGS

Action Taken:
POLISHED BARREL. REPLACED MAGS. LUBED TEST FIRED GOOD.

I believe that IF they had found anything wrong with the pistol that caused the problem, they would have indicated further repair.

IMO, what they did was absolutely nothing but replace the mags. It could be very possible that the people at Kahr just can't figure it out or they don't want to admit that they have a mag problem.

What does all of this say?

IMO, nothing at all except, a guy (me) buys a NIB pistol from his LGS, takes it to the range for the initial firing and has the problems indicated above, the mfg. of the pistol takes marginal steps to correct the problem and they hope they don't hear from the customer again.

[Thunder71]

...Or that the mags were at fault so they replaced them for you.

Sent using Tapatalk on Android

[skiflydive]

...Or that they wanted to have an opportunity to test/diagnose your pistol/mag SYSTEM to make sure there was nothing pistol related causing the problem. Thanks for sending the pistol in with the mags so they could see if there's something wrong with our guns that needs to be addressed.

[JimC]

...Or that the mags were at fault so they replaced them for you.

Sent using Tapatalk on Android

That is of course another way of looking at the problem. But, the obvious is...there is a problem.

I'm thankful that my mags were replaced and Kahr found nothing out of spec with my PM9 and there have been no further issue(s).

[air8]

I hope my stock CW9 mag is ok. Today I'm taking 300-400 rounds for it, and 300-400 for my XDM9.I have the stock 7 round mag plus two 8 round mags I got from cheaper than dirt .com.

The two 8 round mags look just like the pics orphanedcowboy posted. Raised markings, different feel on the outside, different geometry at the described places.

I will be finding out here in a little bit. Headed to the range today. Yipeee!!!

[Tilos]

JimC:
Thanks for posting the pics

[air8]

Good news. No problems with cracking here. I put the CW9 through it's paces today. Shot 400+ rounds through it today. Only issues were the hollow points hanging up when riding the slide closed. Not that that is an issue. I always overhand power stroke or use the slide release, so I don't consider it an issue.

[2firfun50]

Cw45

Pictures:









Changes I noticed:

They moved the engraving up the side

The cut at the rear is larger

The radius on the back corners is bigger(not as tight where it is formed and also cracks)

The round count windows are actually lined up now

The edges of the lips are smoother, more polished feeling

The magazine it self feels grainy, like it could use a little longer in the tumbler

I also noticed the first round, last round loaded, the rim sets in the groove under the rim of the second round on both mags and no matter how hard I tried I cannot get it to seat flush with the back of the mag. This pistol has been flawless with every round fired though so it doesn't seem to bother the pistol as much a it bothers me.......

New to the forum and to Kahr. My new CW45 cracked the mag in less than 50 and it is the style of the mag on the right. Looks just like it, 5 holes and all.