K9 Malfunction

[BEARDOG]

Wow that sucks! OP could you look down the barrel and tell us if the bullet is still in the barrel or just empty case? If you can't see it try using a pencil or something to measure the depth you can insert it to compared to the barrel length.

[wyntrout]

I would think that you have an issue with Remington... an out-of-tolerance and/or over-charged round. I've had case ruptures in my PM9, P9, and K9 from one type of commercially reloaded ammo... one instance of each in that order. I was checking the ammo out in the K9 since it didn't have a sideplate to blow out... still blew out the extractor, but nothing as drastic as this occurrence! I took apart and destroyed the remaining few rounds with those particular cases.

Kahr needs to check out the pistol and Remington should be contact soonest to see if they would get involved... possible pistol replacement/repair.

I've seen bad ammo from Remington... primers seated sideways... could still ignite!

Wynn

[jocko]

good point

Could be why he can't get it apart too. A bulged barrel. I had a G21 Glock brought to me about 2 months ago. Squib round with one behind it. Range guys couldn't get it apart either.
I finally basically beat it apart. Gun is ok, barrel is toast.

but would u not think that would be an easy thing to check out. A squib should still be in the barrel

[Kinetic]

I tried the pencil trick, and the bullet head is gone as I was able to see the pencil tip through the base of the casing in the chamber.

I'm going to submit an RA request to Kahr and ship this out tomorrow. The K9 was manufactured 12/2012

I guess I'll contact CTL too, but I don't see why they would honor a warranty claim unless they agree that they're plastic grips are a little too brittle. They only survived one visit to the range.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[jocko]

never count out CT though. Gret advertising fgor these companies. Granted they can tellu to take a hike but I bet they will offer u at least a CT at a reduced price.

again, if u don't try u will never know..

[BEARDOG]

Yeap send it back to Kahr for inspection and repair, I think I would also contact Remington as well and see how they respond. Between Kahr and Remington someone ought to make this right for you. IMHO

Also CTL has very good CS so they may surprise you with the way they handle this.

[mtnwinds]

After considering the facts related by the OP I was inclined to think that this is probably an example of an OOB (out of battery) discharge. I then performed an experiment with my K40 to determine for myself whether or not it will fire OOB (out of battery).

I removed the recoil spring & guide from my pistol and then reassembled the pistol with the barrel in the slide I then pulled the slide to the rear and began pulling the trigger with the slide at various positions, e.g. fully open and then incrementally closed until you reach the point at which the sear will release the striker.

I found that my K40 will release the sear before my barrel is completely locked and will allow the barrel to return to the rear (because it is not locked).

Regarding the unfortunate incident related by the OP, my guess is that something prevented the round from completely seating in the chamber just enough that the striker was still able to be released. The result was the well documented 'Kaboom' associated with the Glock pistol.

It seems to me it would have been either debris in the chamber or a malformed cartridge. I suppose a very weak recoil spring could also be a factor.

[jocko]

but u took out the two most important parts that make the gun function like it should. What does that prove??? IMO u set up a scenario that maybe could do what ur saying but that is not what a person does with his gun, let along trying to shoot it that way.. Now can a weak recol spring be a possble???IMO sure could alot depends on that particular gun to.

Lets wait and see what kahr has to say, and remington also. The photos should speak for themselves to..

about the only thing the samewith a glock and kahr is they both utilize the striker system but thetrigger systems are totally different. A glocis well over 60% pre cocked where as a kahr islucky to be 20%. One is ready to go boom the utter still needs some DA help to make that happen.

[mtnwinds]

jocko, only 1 part was removed; the recoil spring. It works the same with the recoil spring in as it does with it out. Taking it out just makes moving the slide easier.

I don't think you got the point of what I was doing. Never intended to shoot the pistol with the recoil spring removed. I simply determined at what point of slide travel the sear engaged the striker.

[RRP]

Good test, mtnwinds, and it validates my suspicion.

[ripley16]

I then performed an experiment with my K40 to determine for myself whether or not it will fire OOB (out of battery).

I removed the recoil spring & guide ...

I wonder what results your test shows when the pistol is fully assembled? I've followed the same process dozens of times, except with a complete K9, and cannot duplicate your results. Each time I reach the point that the trigger will release the striker, the barrel is locked to the breech face and slide. There is still a small amount of forward movement, about 2 millimeters, but the barrel is locked. I don't see how a Kahr is mechanically capable of firing out of battery.

[johnh]

Agreed, and I cannot replicate that either. I believe a pistol that is incompletely assembled is not a valid test. To me this looks like an over pressure round. I have seen some quality control issues with more than one American ammunition manufacturer's budget lines in the last couple years. Bullets seated backwards, primers missing or upside down, etc.. One has to wonder if the rush to meet demand led to corners being cut.

[gb6491]

After considering the facts related by the OP I was inclined to think that this is probably an example of an OOB (out of battery) discharge. I then performed an experiment with my K40 to determine for myself whether or not it will fire OOB (out of battery).

I removed the recoil spring & guide from my pistol and then reassembled the pistol with the barrel in the slide I then pulled the slide to the rear and began pulling the trigger with the slide at various positions, e.g. fully open and then incrementally closed until you reach the point at which the sear will release the striker.

I found that my K40 will release the sear before my barrel is completely locked and will allow the barrel to return to the rear (because it is not locked).

Regarding the unfortunate incident related by the OP, my guess is that something prevented the round from completely seating in the chamber just enough that the striker was still able to be released. The result was the well documented 'Kaboom' associated with the Glock pistol.

It seems to me it would have been either debris in the chamber or a malformed cartridge. I suppose a very weak recoil spring could also be a factor.

mtnwinds,
Did you happen to check if the striker block was functioning at that point?
Regards,
Greg

[mtnwinds]

My thought is that an overpressure round would have been firmly locked into the chamber resulting in a split barrel with possible blown off portions of the frame.

The position of the fired case in the chamber as well as the blown out portion of the case head are classic 'kaboom' features.

[mtnwinds]

Heres an article about the ability of a Glock to fire OOB: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html

There are a lot of subtleties or variables that come into play when an OOB happens. It's a documented fact that some primers are more easily detonated than others. Some folks here may have experienced that exciting event at their reloading bench.

A partially compressed striker is capable of detonating a sensitive primer while it will not detonate a primer with a thicker cup.