Used K9 trigger problem. A lot of over travel and a second click.

[stylus]

Hello,

I picked up a used K9 from a local shop, I really like the gun it shoots really nice. I have put about 75 rounds throught it. The slide is butter smooth and the trigger is very smooth and consistent as well. I don't have any idea how many rounds are through it, it was a trade in to them.

The problem is with the trigger when I dry fire it I pull the trigger until it clicks as it would in normal operation and everything is good, but if I keep pulling it to the rear it loads up tension again and goes click but it isn't a very nice click, it is more of a clunk. I had trouble getting the slide off as well to disassemble and clean. It seems like there is too much over travel in the trigger.

I brought it back to the local shop where I bought it to have them look at it, he said he is not as familiar with Karh's so it might go back to the factory. I don't have the serial number in front of me but I did look it up when I bought the gun and thought that the manufacture date was sometime in mid 1998.

I suspect that there is a part that is warn out and I could just order it from Karh's website but I am not sure what to look for.

[gb6491]

My first thought would be to pull the extractor side grip off and check if the trigger bar spring is hanging up on the trigger bar anywhere along it's stroke.
Regards,
Greg

[yqtszhj]

Here is a long description of what I think may be happening as I have duplicated something like this in the past.

With the gun empty, no magazine installed, rack the slide. Then pull the trigger slowly until you hear the striker release. Keep pulling the trigger slowly rearward while watching the rear of the slide to see if it moves upwards a little bit before it clicks again.

Then rack the slide again, slowly pull the trigger until you hear the striker release, hold the trigger where it is, rack the slide again and see if it's smooth going backward.

Then rack the slide again, pull the trigger until you hear the striker release, keep pulling the trigger all the way back until you feel pressure and hold it there. Rack the slide again and see how it feels this time. It may not be as smooth.

What I have seen happen is when dry firing, there is more trigger travel which causes the c0cking cam to put more pressure to the underside of the slide where the cam pushes in to release the firing pin block. Once it travels far enough the trigger bar slips off the c0cking cam causing the second click.

You dont get this shooting live ammo because when the round goes off the slide travels rearward and dis-engages the trigger bar from the c0cking cam preventing excessive pressure and over travel of the cam. That is what I have seen anyway.

My theory is over time minor wear of the trigger bay may cause this to stop. I would bet your K9 has seen little use so I would say keep shooting it as long as it works well.

[yqtszhj]

Also like Greg said if you remove the grip you can get a good view of what's happening when doing what I mentioned.

[stylus]

I would like to carry this K9, so I am in the process of going through a couple boxes of ammo that I could use for carry and being very conscious of any issues that arise, so far it has run fine with out single hiccup. So far it seems that I have to hold at a high 12 0'clock position when aiming so the sights may be a little high for close distances (7 yards +/-). Along with running the ammo to make sure that it is 100% reliable in this pistol, I have to get used to the draw, grip, point of aim etc...

My biggest concern about the trigger acting strange would be any drop safety or trigger disconnect that would not work properly if the gun was jarred on accident from being dropped or whatever. Also I see a lot of talk about over travel and guys fine tuning that to help dial in accuracy, I have only been shooting a 4.5in metal spinner target so I can't say how tight the groups are other then I can hit the metal spinner if I slow down a little bit and concentrate on fundamentals.

I left it with my local shop where I bought it for them to look at, so I cannot pull the side panel off and look at what is happening myself. Most likely they will end up sending it into Kahr.

[yqtszhj]

I'm interested to know what they find. Keep us posted.

[Bick]

I'm the dude working on the K9. The click sound you hear is the trigger bar slipping off of the bottom of the cocking cam as the trigger is pulled past the point that the striker is released. I don't think this is supposed to happen, but it doesn't impede the operation of the gun. It does make taking the slide off difficult because it can only be removed after the first click of the firing action, when the trigger bar slips off, the cam tips up too far to take the slide off. I'm sending it back.

[yqtszhj]

Thats what I thought it would be. I can duplicate that but I have to squeeze the trigger on mine way harder than it would ever normally be squeezed and it cant be duplicated with the slide off. Be interesting to see if they replace or rework the trigger bar or if its trouble in the trigger end.

[stylus]

Now that I understand what is happening with this I am just going to live with it as is instead of sending it back to the factory. It would be out of warranty work charged at $55 an hour plus shipping.

I think that yqtszhj and Bick are correct in saying that it is a minor issue that won't be a problem during live fire.

I took a video of what is happening with the grip cover off, you can see the trigger bar kick down off the cocking cam. In the video the gun is (empty of course) not cocked so the only click you see/hear is where the trigger bar is kicking down.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b...it?usp=sharing

[yqtszhj]

You didn't tell us it was black. I think its a flaw that could never be fixed and you should send me the gun for proper disposal.

[gb6491]

Now that I understand what is happening with this I am just going to live with it as is instead of sending it back to the factory. It would be out of warranty work charged at $55 an hour plus shipping.

I think that yqtszhj and Bick are correct in saying that it is a minor issue that won't be a problem during live fire.

I took a video of what is happening with the grip cover off, you can see the trigger bar kick down off the cocking cam. In the video the gun is (empty of course) not cocked so the only click you see/hear is where the trigger bar is kicking down.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b...it?usp=sharing

You probably need a new trigger bar spring. Yours appears malformed and is incorrectly positioned on the trigger bar.

Here's a good one that is correctly positioned on the trigger bar:

You might be able to reshape your current spring, but that would be a temp fix at best.

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Good eye Greg. I wondered about that myself. I know there is an old style trigger bar spring and a new style. I think you experienced both fixing up a friends K9 down in your neck of the woods if memory still works at all.

I thought this was old style but looking again I think your correct in that it's messed up.
A new spring might bring along a much more harmonious outcome I'm thinking.

Easy and not expensive. Lots to gain and very little to lose.................

[gb6491]

Your memory is correct sir.
There's a photo of the old style spring and trigger bar in this thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...-Trigger-issue
BTW, that's your photo of a good, correctly positioned spring in both threads.

[stylus]

Sure I will send it to you for "proper disposal", shipping cost is $625 plus applicable tax and ffl transfer fees... :-)

Just to verify, the current model spring listed on Kahr's website will be a direct fit? I wanted to order a black mag baseplate kit to see if I like it, I can order both at the same time.

[Bawanna]

That's exactly the picture I was looking for of the old style before I was rudely interrupted.. So this is for sure the new style, the spring is just bent out of shape for whatever reason.
I just unloaded 25,000 rounds off a freight truck. Quite a work out for an old derelict in a wheelchair. I think I sweated. Hope nobody calls the union, I'm sure there's a rule about that.

Sadly, not a single round is mine. Should be a big pile of 45 coming in one of these days too. Wish they'd let me know when its coming so I could prepare, I hate surprises