What's your opinion?

[LDM]

my two bits

My two bits... and that's about what it's worth.
I also had the flakey barrel problems; X2. Third barrel is good-to-go.
Customer Service did what they were supposed to.
But Kahr could & should do a better job before it leaves the factory.
It is an elegant design with tight tolerances, putting an awful lot into a small package.
But I keep getting this vision of a "bean-counter" guiding the process by a calculated: quality control/extra finish cost vs. "acceptable" number of problems/ Customer Service cost.
Take one small example: the striker channel. No excuse for the machining debris found there from the factory. How long does it take someone to swab it out? Has anyone not found debris here?
The small amount of extra time to finish these weapons should be done.
I have said before, a Kahr needs a fluff & buff right out of the box. Maybe even a reliability job by a gunsmith. Shooting several hundred rounds will typically do the job. But this is only shifting the cost to the consumer from the manufacturer.
A Kahr is not cheap. Another $50-$100 to have a fully finished weapon would probably not deter a Kahr buyer. The ammo to "shoot it in" costs more.
The advantages of a Kahr made it worth the effort to me. I went in with eyes open and I'd do it again.
I shudder though, when I think about the average person who buys and maybe (just, maybe) shoots the 200 round break in, and never really tests the weapon with different ammo, detail strip cleaning, etc. If such a person needed the weapon, it could fail.
Stay safe.

[jocko]

Hmmm: funny Para told me I needed 500 rounds before getting excited about sending my Para Carry 9 back. At least kahr puts it in their manual for all to read and see,. and then to decide for themselves. One can print up the entire kahr manual on line before ever buying a kahr and decide then if he wants to buy a gun that they recommend 200 rounds .......99% of all kahrs don't need the rounds down rantge, but I would hate to think that oane buys a news gun of any mfg-er and never puts proper rounds down range to feel it is reliable.. I could not find any round recommendation from Para in my manual....

No doubt bean counters come into play on about any product made. I read very often of $2000 plus custom guns having to go back for adjustment. evidently they don't put 200 rounds down range to be sure of reliability or this would NEVER happen. A guy is gonna buy a gun that sometimes, will not be right, it is sad but that is what happens and no gun company is exempt from that.

darn Jim K. didn't know shakespear's name was Bob. Sorry I was probably the only one on this forum that didn't know that. And once again you refuse to read what you print. You stated u would not buy another kahr until they priovided you with the technical data. But heh, ur the man, your read Bob.. Maybe you should print alittle more slowly so you can remember what you print and not try to dance around your "printed" statements..

Have a good holiday my friend

[Jim K]

Gosh darnit golly gee whiz Jokko,

Billy Bob is someone else. C'mon down below the Mason Dixon line to meet him.

Billy is AKA William Shakespeare.

One beer for you my friend, Jim K

[jocko]

but

Gosh darnit golly gee whiz Jokko,

Billy Bob is someone else. C'mon down below the Mason Dixon line to meet him.

Billy is AKA William Shakespeare.

One beer for you my friend, Jim K

u always seem to skirt around your quotes. damn . W. S is still alive????

[gunmut]

Woodman
I keep trying to read your post, but I am getting distracted by your Avitar! The full motion is just to much for me!

[jocko]

absolutely

Woodman
I keep trying to read your post, but I am getting distracted by your Avitar! The full motion is just to much for me!

the best avitar I have ever seen to date. she looks like she is built like a:80:

[wagon]

LDM ... we think like twins but we're not twins . No doubt we share the same concerns (philosophically) on Kahr's products.

As I said before, it's almost like they shift their QA function to their customers, no doubt that Kahr will make good when issues surface, but if they value the quality mind set of "doing it right the first time and everytime", there will be MORE happy owners on top of the many they already have.

My two bits... and that's about what it's worth.
I also had the flakey barrel problems; X2. Third barrel is good-to-go.
Customer Service did what they were supposed to.
But Kahr could & should do a better job before it leaves the factory.
It is an elegant design with tight tolerances, putting an awful lot into a small package.
But I keep getting this vision of a "bean-counter" guiding the process by a calculated: quality control/extra finish cost vs. "acceptable" number of problems/ Customer Service cost.
Take one small example: the striker channel. No excuse for the machining debris found there from the factory. How long does it take someone to swab it out? Has anyone not found debris here?
The small amount of extra time to finish these weapons should be done.
I have said before, a Kahr needs a fluff & buff right out of the box. Maybe even a reliability job by a gunsmith. Shooting several hundred rounds will typically do the job. But this is only shifting the cost to the consumer from the manufacturer.
A Kahr is not cheap. Another $50-$100 to have a fully finished weapon would probably not deter a Kahr buyer. The ammo to "shoot it in" costs more.
The advantages of a Kahr made it worth the effort to me. I went in with eyes open and I'd do it again.
I shudder though, when I think about the average person who buys and maybe (just, maybe) shoots the 200 round break in, and never really tests the weapon with different ammo, detail strip cleaning, etc. If such a person needed the weapon, it could fail.
Stay safe.

[jocko]

they are playing the numbers as most every mfg-er does including gun companies. the number punchers have told them that if they take an extra 10 minutes (example of time) to do something maybe even alittle better that that cost of down time will cost far more than the chance of a certain % of the product (what ever it may be) failing and it having to come back for service. I have no doubt that all these companies produce testing equipment that is great stuff, but also this testing eqjipment is designed so as to not slow down production either, less their be more cost involved. What seems like a simple thing to us might not be and I don't think one would actually pay $100 or more to be told this gun is perfect out of the box, when indeed we feel it should be anyhow and no doubt even costing $100 more to get what you think is the perfect product does not guarantee it to be so.(a good example if the many custom $2500 1911 guns on the market that have to go back for more service) Kahr like Smith and Ruger makes great products but there will be some units that slip through the cracks and that then is where a companies warranty and service policy comes into play. If a company jacks with a consumer (again just not a gun company) then that leaves a bad taste for sure, but if a company steps up and takes care of an issue that is already out their door before being discovered, then that is a good company.

Look at ruger as a great example, their SR9 was a diseaster and had to be recalled. Today it is a good and reliable gun. Their lcp was a total diseaster and all 50,000+ had to be recalled and completly revamped. Today it is a good gun. Should have this happened, NO. but it did and the best Ruger could do once those guns were in our hands was to make a full attempt to do the right thing. I am sure ruger lost some loyal customers over this to and I am very sure they had their products hammered on the Ruger forums , exactly like we have here on the kahr forums. ruger IMO has had far more major issues with their semi's than karh ever could have dreamed of, but yet they have weathered the storm and seem from all indications to be back on track with thier customer loyalty..

Just not sure putting a dollar amount on anything surely guarantees one of complete reliability. We think it should but in actual realitiy it sometimes does not.....

I think the best advice given here and on other gun forums, if you get a lemon and you can not trouble shoot it or get the proper trouble shooting advice that many of these excellent gun forums guys can give, then box it up and send it back to the people who made it.

I did that 17 times with my 3 kel tec small auto's..

sorry about the long post. I tend to do that..

[Jim K]

u always seem to skirt around your quotes. damn . W. S is still alive????

Try again Jokko. William Shakespeare is not alive just in case your hallucinating. He is also known as "Billy" these days, not "Billy Bob". Damn, everytime I think you may be a smart guy you prove me wrong.

On the subject of acceptable defects; how does pointing to the problems of another brand make it OK for a different manufacturer to put out defective product? Is the standard what can be gotten away with or is it excellence?

You encourage Kahr owners to do things like polish ramps and put more rounds down range when their pistol is non functional, yet you defend the lack of tech data that will make sure the pistol conforms to design specs. Inside information? BS! I stepped in that so I had to amputate my foot because the stink was so bad.

200 rounds for break in before a pistol functions is more BS. For the price asked for these pistols they should work 100% right out of the box. Yeah, I'm gonna shoot 200 rounds to make sure the pistol is reliable but if it fails during that time it needs fixing and another 200 rounds to assure reliability. Don't tell me "it just needs more rounds down range". I paid for a 1st rate pistol, that's what I should get and don't whip out that line about "tolerances". I know all about those my friend. I seriously doubt the engineer specified parts that do not fit.

Of course all this is just my opinion but my opinion counts when I purchase a firearm.



Regards, Jim K

[jocko]

Jim, calm down, it's just a gun , u get to carried away and then you tend to sway from your preachings. If it ain't perfect send it back, so often stated by you but yet you hacked you own P9 to make it work. guess the "do as I say and not as I do" doesn't hold true for you.

Never heard of William S. being called Billy, these days either, course I don't live south of the Dixon line either, .... You seem proud of that to. I admire ur tenacity.

Take alittle break, take a deep breath and then try to come back to this forum and really try to add something to one who maybe comes on here with an issue that is solveable in house instead of packing it back up as u so state but yet fail to do yourself.

Not much credability IMO. and it is just my opinion but my opinion counts also.

I guess in ur small mind that every time a round fails to do its thing it has to be the guns fault. Can't be a bad round, dirty gun, shooter error, just has to be the gun. How childish.

[Jim K]

Jim, calm down, it's just a gun , u get to carried away and then you tend to sway from your preachings. If it ain't perfect send it back, so often stated by you but yet you hacked you own P9 to make it work. guess the "do as I say and not as I do" doesn't hold true for you.

Never heard of William S. being called Billy, these days either, course I don't live south of the Dixon line either, .... You seem proud of that to. I admire ur tenacity.

Take alittle break, take a deep breath and then try to come back to this forum and really try to add something to one who maybe comes on here with an issue that is solveable in house instead of packing it back up as u so state but yet fail to do yourself.

Not much credability IMO. and it is just my opinion but my opinion counts also.

I guess in ur small mind that every time a round fails to do its thing it has to be the guns fault. Can't be a bad round, dirty gun, shooter error, just has to be the gun. How childish.

Jokko,

It's just a gun, so we should accept a self defense weapon which is not reliable? I'm not excited, I'm disappointed. Sorry if I upset you again.

I repaired my P9 with some trouble but I recommend that other people send theirs back for repair. Get the manufacturer to pay for shipping, both ways. It's easier, not that they can't do it themselves if they are inclined to. The idea is that the manufacturer will improve quality if the cost of warranty work is high enough. If the manufacturer provides maintenance data then it might be easier for the customer to do the warranty work himself. That seems to be a big leap of reason for you.

Your credibility suffers when you misspell the word. Read more and stop spreading BS.

C'mon down south. Life's good, get one.

Regards, Jim K

[jocko]

I'm just waitng for the day your add something positive to this forum. probalby won't ever come but I can hope. You still contradicted yourself, don't do as I do but do as I say. but heh your Jim K. turst me ok Jim, you don't upset me. Mostly you amuse me with your verbage which is the same ol thing time and time again..

But you have a nice holiday season and just maybe 2010 will be a better year for ol Jim K.

[PETE14]

I got a MK9 for Christmas and took it to the range this past weekend. I put around 120 rounds through it and it (at 7 yards 8 out of 10 bullseyes from a bench) is one of the most accurate guns I have ever shot. I did have a couple of failures to return to battery but realized that it was my failure to make sure that the ammo was put into the magazine tightly to the back. I was questioning whether I should have bought a PM9 instead but with the extra weight of the all SS gun the recoil was very minimal. I would trust my life with this gun. I paid alot for the gun but I feel like it was an excellent investment.

[jocko]

u can alwlays buy a PM9 later on, congrats on such a nice gun and your MK will even get smoother with more rounds down range. I know that irritates a certain person when I say that but it is a proven fact from so many posters of new kahrs or for that matter new semi's in general that the gun just seems to smooth out after so many rounds have went through it.

[PETE14]

I kind of thought that the 200 round rule was ridiculous at first but the more I thought about it I see it as a huge bonus to get familiar with the gun. When I bought my Glock I bet I didn't put more than a box through it and I have had it for 19 years and it still has not had more than 200 through it. I think it definately helps you get familiar with the gun plus I was way more accurate the more I shot with it.