Black Rose P380 engraving in slide under front post? Jam-o-matic.

[stylus]

I would like to know if anybody has seen crude engraving in a Black Rose edition, and if it is causing me an issue. I am having bad feed problems, about 50% of the time out of 60+/- rounds out of 4 different magazines and two different types of ammo.

I purchased this Black Rose edition P380 used from Gun Broker and it looks like it had barely any rounds through it. The picture shows a 2 slides side x side, one of the black one is from a P380 that we have had for a while and runs 99.99% perfect (one stovepipe since I bought it used). I can see where the black slide has a wear mark right where the engraved "35" is.


Couldn't figure out how to attach a photo to this forum, so you can see it from Google drive:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_bG...dNeWkzbzA/edit

[muggsy]

It sounds like you may have gotten one with a bad frame. Kahr will replace the frame for you, but ithe gun will have to be returned to you through an FFL as the BATF will consider it a new gun. The frame is the part with the serial number and the new number will be different from the old. It will also require another NICS background check. Call Kahr service for a return authorization number. They should take care of your problem.

[FLBri]

That number engraving should have nothing to do with feed issues, though I don't know what it is. It may be a special numbering for the special edition pistol. I have a PM9 black rose, but it is at my office and I can check it Monday. Nothing touches that surface as the barrel is sticking through the front of the slide when tilted in the slide motion.

If it has low round count, give it 200 to 400 rounds and than re-assess the reliability. It may need a feed ramp adjustment or/also an extractor tune up. The extractor can inhibit the feed if it is too snug. More firing will also help this to loosen up.

There are several simpler causes of chronic miss feed and likely is not a bad frame. You can always call CS at Kahr, but I would shoot several ammo boxes first (and keep it clean during). Don't expect a new frame for free as it is a used gun to you. But, again, it likely has nothing to do with the frame and should be much simpler. The tolerances in these smaller than micro pistols is very very slim.

[muggsy]

Did you try more than one brand or type of ammo in the gun? If not, do so. My P380 doesn't like flat nosed bullets. I'm betting that the previous owner off-ed the gun for the same reason, failure to feed. You can waste a lot of time and money or you can send the gun back to Kahr. Since it's a Black Rose edition I'm betting that they will take very good care of you. It's one of their high end models. If Kahr charges you for the repair they will call you first with a price for your approval. If you talk nice to them they will probably fix it for free, or for the cost of shipping. Return shipping through a local FFL can save you money over shipping it yourself.

[stylus]

Thanks for the replies so far. I have started looking at the tech section of this forum and seeing some good information about how to work with feed issues. I have compared my two P380's side by side and see a few differences. The one that runs exceptionally well is serial number RC98xx the black rose is RA49xx so I am not sure how far apart they would be in production but I assume that the RC98xx serial number comes quite a bit later than RA49xx.

When I have a few minutes I am going to run check the gun out for some of the recommendations in the tech section. I am will run about 50 more rounds and do some testing. I have a feeling if I switch the black rose slide onto the other frame it will run well. All the differences between the guns seem to be in the frame. The spring feels stiffer in the black rose.

I am probably going to contact customer service and see if they have any recommendations and push towards what I can do to send it into the factory. It's pretty disappointing at this point, but I know how awesome a P380 so I want to make it right. I was really excited to purchase this for my wife, I have been searching on and off for a long time and spent a lot of $ considering it is a .380

[FLBri]

switching slides is a great idea. Also, what Muggsy said is good .... try different ammos. Even if one works OK in one pistol, it may be suspect in the other.

[stylus]

I got a response from Kahr customer service regarding the "35" engraved into the slide. It was done at the factory specifically on the Black Rose editions for tracking purposes.

Good morning. Thank you for the question. This engraving was done here at the factory. This is done with the Black Rose models in order to keep all parts (slide, frame, internals) all together. It will in no way cause any functionality issues. I hope this information helps.

Jay D'Andrea
Customer Service Supervisor

After the first 50 rounds which I discussed above, I tore everything down and did another good cleaning reassembled and shot another 50 round box of Remington 95gr ball nose ammo. It was more successful this time. All 50 rounds went bang and none of them failed to load. Unfortunately I did have the slide lock back twice instead of loading in the next round. I can see that the slide stop on my Black rose edition is an earlier design than the one on my other P380, so I would say they must of improved on it in the later edition.

I went ahead and cleaned everything up again including the magazines. I also followed the "Kahr lube points" recommendations found on this site. I will try another 50 rounds of the same Remington ammo hopefully tonight if it is good weather.

[b4uqzme]

It's great to hear you are making headway. Sometimes I think repeating the break-in is even more important for a used gun because you never know what the previous owner did to/with it.

Welcome and good luck.

[yqtszhj]

I bet once you get through breakin it will run well with good quality ammo.

[FLBri]

Yep, I agree. Sounds like it's already sorting out.
And just for the record ... my PM9 Black Rose has the same numbering inside the slide.

[stylus]

I now have right around 225 rounds through the gun. The found that it appears to be really sensitive to how rounds are loaded into the magazine. The rounds have to be pushed tightly to the rear of the magazine. In the manual it does have a specific side note about making sure the rounds are pushed all the way into the mag. I found that it happens most on magazines that I use to load one into the chamber then remove the magazine and top it off and reinsert.

The same magazine did it to me twice out of 50 rounds, so I put a little mark on it with a sharpie and grabbed another 25 rounds to test with. I loaded the mag and inserted it so I could pull one off the top and then top of the mag so that the gun was at 6+1. I fired 3 rounds and repeated the process by pulling the mag, clearing the chamber and refilling so I was only shooting 2-3 off the top (of 6+1) each time going through the 25 rounds. It was locking back all over the place on me, nearly every time out of the 2-3 rounds I was doing for my testing procedure.

I am still having the slide lock back on me, I am not sure if I should spend the $60 - $75 on ammo and see if it just needs more break in or send it into Kahr for them to look at it. Supposedly they Black Rose ones are supposed to have special treatment at the factory during manufacturing so it should already be to the highest standard from them.

I called Kahr, the sales rep said there is no difference between the slide stop levers in the newer production guns vs the one I have from around early 2010. (so that means what I am seeing is the difference between a new condition one and a worn one?). The end result was I may be limp-wristing it, and could send it in for them to look at.

I need to clean it up again real good either way, and my wife said well maybe she can shoot it again tonight so I guess her vote is run more ammo through it.

[FLBri]

Have you tried switching the slide stop pins between your two P380's?

[MarkB1]

A couple of suggestions:

The first, and easiest to fix, is does your thumb hit the slide stop when you fire? If it does, your thumb will force the slide stop up, locking the slide open (unless you are left handed then never mind).

Next is your slide stop may be hitting the rounds in the magazine which would force the slide stop up locking the slide open.

Here are two threads that address this:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...nosedive-Fixed!!

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...CW380-break-in

I hope this helps.

[stylus]

- I am left handed so the thumb issue is quite unlikely.
- I switched slide pins between my 2 P380's it didn't solve the problem.
- I sanded a little meat off the slide pin to help clearance back away from the nose of the rounds, it may of helped but the problem isn't 100% cured.
- I have used 5 different types brands of ammo
- I thoroughly clean the gun and magazines after every 50-75 rounds, and lube according to the diagram I found on this site.
- I run the magazines dry (no lube) and checked that the spring is pointing up at towards the nose of the rounds.
- I am not limp wristing it, I practice regularly with a .40 M&P shield so I am comfortable with a fair amount of snap in a small frame.
- I confirmed that neither one of my P380's like Wal-Mart Winchester white box with the squared off nose

- I confirmed that neither one of my P380's like the Brass MAXX Tulammo found at Wal-Mart. The case is shaped differently, and they won't slide in under the extractor so the rounds get wedged at a angle not being able to go into the chamber and not able to slide up under the extractor. I have to whack the back of the slide to force them in on most rounds. Unfortunately this was the first box of ammo I grabbed off the stack when we pulled this Black Rose P380 out of the box. On the same night I tested with the dynamics research frangible hollow points (SD ammo) which has a square nose and a slightly longer overall length.


The last 75 rounds of ammo I ran was CCI Blazer in the aluminum alloy cases (not brass).
- I had 1 premature slide lock back and it was round #2 of 75
- I had 1 light primer strike which was round 25-30ish
- I paid special attention to make sure all the rounds were fully seated to the rear of the mag


With the exception of these 2 hiccups in the last 75 rounds the gun is running well, I did a lot of slow fire shooting, aiming at a small spinner target. I did a couple of magazine dumps pulling the trigger as fast as I could fire 7 rounds.

Are there any photos showing the how much meat I can sand off of the slide pin before it starts causing the slide to not lock back correctly? I don't take off too much material and start causing the slide to not lock open correctly and have the start the process all over again. I would have to special order the slide pin if I want it to match correctly because the standard ones for sale are black or unpolished. The slide stop in the black rose is factory polished.

[kerby9mm]

Probably won't make a difference but when I load a semi auto I lock the slide back drop the mag put 1 in the mag insert the mag chamber the round then load the mag tap it on my hand to be sure rounds are seated back then put the mag in.