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Well after getting my range ammo over the weekend, I decided to test out the MagGuts further. I also had bought the extended version which allows 8 + 1 when using the extended magazine from Kahr. What I found when using the WWB truncated nose (flat nose) ammo was that getting the top bullet to feed was consistently a big problem for the extended magazine due to nosediving. When using flat nose ammo, the top bullet (8th) in the magazine actually nosedived every time, while those that followed did not. (edit: The second to top bullet in the extended magazine with MagGuts occasionally nosedived as well with flat nose WWB)
Now my working theory, which partly comes from the slingshot mod thread, is that as the bullets are stacked further away from the follower, they tend to flatten out horizontally at the top of the magazine (once they move forward slightly), which significantly increases the chance of nosediving due to the very, very steep nature of the feed ramp in the 380. I don't have a way to change that, although the slingshot mod was meant to do that when using the plastic Kahr follower. Maybe increasing the steepness of the MagGuts follower would do it. But there is a way to have use of flat nose or stubby hollow point or XP in reliable fashion, I think.
Using the experience that was related to me from Lehigh Defense, I used Federal JHP (which is round nosed and is my other range ammo) for the top bullet in the magazine (edit: top two bullets for the extended magazine with MagGuts) and the damned gun fired every single time even though I had WWB used as all the other bullets. So to review, whatever you have loaded in the chamber is not too relevant, as that has already been fed, so if you can get an XP or Hydra Shock loaded there, fine. What is critical is that the top bullet after that in either the six or seven bullet magazine be round nose or conceivably something that feeds reliably like Hornady Critical Duty. To be on the safe side, you might want (edit: do want, at least with the MagGuts springs) the top two bullets in the 7 rounder to be reliable feeders. In my opinion, the rest can be flat nose (for range purposes) or Hydra Shocks (or hopefully XP's when I get some tested) because as you get down lower in the magazine, the bullets tend to conform their orientation closer to the upward slant of the follower. My ramp has been polished a bit, so that may be necessary as well.
For those who haven't followed the slingshot mod, when you stack a bunch of bullets, they tend to curve, with the backside of the bullets forming a larger radius than the forward part of the bullet, which is why large rifle magazines are curved for reliable feed. Since they don't curve pistol magazines, it becomes an issue the more bullets the magazine holds (unless the feed ramp has a gentler slope I suppose). The round nose seems to overcome the steep feed ramp of the CW380 despite hitting it horizontally, so they don't face the issue that the flat nose bullets do.
So in conclusion, my carry rounds will include a very reliably feeding bullet in the top one or two spots of the magazine, and more deadly XP or Hydra Shock in the rest.
XP's seem to be the best when they do feed as they do not rely on hollow point expansion, which admittedly can fail the Hydra Shock when passing through the 4 layer denim test. The beauty of the Hydra Shock is that it's going to penetrate sufficiently come h3ll or high water, because if there is no heavy clothing it expands and penetrates to FBI standards, and if heavy clothing is present, then it acts like a FMJ and penetrates to FBI standards without expansion. No other hollow point does that to my knowledge. XP's would probably be superior if we can count on reliable feed, however, since the permanent wound cavity is even worse than the expanded hollow point, and for a longer distance to boot...and that is irrespective of clothing worn by the perp.
(To clarify the intent here, I used flat nose WWB ammo as a cheap method to simulate problems found with more expensive rounds like Hydra Shock and Lehigh XP, since it's too expensive to use those defense carry rounds over and over in trying to solve the feeding problem. I have no plans to use WWB for the gun long term since the Federal Champion FMJ feeds better and is cheaper at Wally World. My hope was/is that if we solve the feed issue with WWB, then we also do so for Hydra Shock and perhaps XP to some degree. Just a cheaper way to get it done.)
Now my working theory, which partly comes from the slingshot mod thread, is that as the bullets are stacked further away from the follower, they tend to flatten out horizontally at the top of the magazine (once they move forward slightly), which significantly increases the chance of nosediving due to the very, very steep nature of the feed ramp in the 380. I don't have a way to change that, although the slingshot mod was meant to do that when using the plastic Kahr follower. Maybe increasing the steepness of the MagGuts follower would do it. But there is a way to have use of flat nose or stubby hollow point or XP in reliable fashion, I think.
Using the experience that was related to me from Lehigh Defense, I used Federal JHP (which is round nosed and is my other range ammo) for the top bullet in the magazine (edit: top two bullets for the extended magazine with MagGuts) and the damned gun fired every single time even though I had WWB used as all the other bullets. So to review, whatever you have loaded in the chamber is not too relevant, as that has already been fed, so if you can get an XP or Hydra Shock loaded there, fine. What is critical is that the top bullet after that in either the six or seven bullet magazine be round nose or conceivably something that feeds reliably like Hornady Critical Duty. To be on the safe side, you might want (edit: do want, at least with the MagGuts springs) the top two bullets in the 7 rounder to be reliable feeders. In my opinion, the rest can be flat nose (for range purposes) or Hydra Shocks (or hopefully XP's when I get some tested) because as you get down lower in the magazine, the bullets tend to conform their orientation closer to the upward slant of the follower. My ramp has been polished a bit, so that may be necessary as well.
For those who haven't followed the slingshot mod, when you stack a bunch of bullets, they tend to curve, with the backside of the bullets forming a larger radius than the forward part of the bullet, which is why large rifle magazines are curved for reliable feed. Since they don't curve pistol magazines, it becomes an issue the more bullets the magazine holds (unless the feed ramp has a gentler slope I suppose). The round nose seems to overcome the steep feed ramp of the CW380 despite hitting it horizontally, so they don't face the issue that the flat nose bullets do.
So in conclusion, my carry rounds will include a very reliably feeding bullet in the top one or two spots of the magazine, and more deadly XP or Hydra Shock in the rest.
XP's seem to be the best when they do feed as they do not rely on hollow point expansion, which admittedly can fail the Hydra Shock when passing through the 4 layer denim test. The beauty of the Hydra Shock is that it's going to penetrate sufficiently come h3ll or high water, because if there is no heavy clothing it expands and penetrates to FBI standards, and if heavy clothing is present, then it acts like a FMJ and penetrates to FBI standards without expansion. No other hollow point does that to my knowledge. XP's would probably be superior if we can count on reliable feed, however, since the permanent wound cavity is even worse than the expanded hollow point, and for a longer distance to boot...and that is irrespective of clothing worn by the perp.
(To clarify the intent here, I used flat nose WWB ammo as a cheap method to simulate problems found with more expensive rounds like Hydra Shock and Lehigh XP, since it's too expensive to use those defense carry rounds over and over in trying to solve the feeding problem. I have no plans to use WWB for the gun long term since the Federal Champion FMJ feeds better and is cheaper at Wally World. My hope was/is that if we solve the feed issue with WWB, then we also do so for Hydra Shock and perhaps XP to some degree. Just a cheaper way to get it done.)
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