Found solution to FTF and failure to return to battery on CW 380

[Tilos]

What is the .380 fans engineered solution for the magazine that you speak of?

This has proven to work with all Kahr mag followers, a mod not an engineered solution...yet:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...t-modification

[picrthis]

Thank you, that is what you meant; that is SOP on a Kahr though

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[DriveAKahr]

I wanted to bump this thread because this seems like it would fix A LOT of the problem CW/P380s out there, no?

Questions I have is:

What exactly did you guys use to actually take off material?

How did you measure the part and confirm that material was taken off (with what measuring tools? Digital calipers of some sort?)

Im surprised this thread is not a sticky or getting more attention...

[tigman250]

I wanted to bump this thread because this seems like it would fix A LOT of the problem CW/P380s out there, no?

Questions I have is:

What exactly did you guys use to actually take off material?

How did you measure the part and confirm that material was taken off (with what measuring tools? Digital calipers of some sort?)

Im surprised this thread is not a sticky or getting more attention...

I just used a course stone to remove the material, if you do not have a set of stones you could put sandpaper on a hard surface, would just have to move to a fresh spot frequently as the sandpaper wore down. Yes, just a standard set of calipers does a great job of measuring, just measure before so you know how much has been taken off. Glad this thread is still helping people!

[DriveAKahr]

I just used a course stone to remove the material, if you do not have a set of stones you could put sandpaper on a hard surface, would just have to move to a fresh spot frequently as the sandpaper wore down. Yes, just a standard set of calipers does a great job of measuring, just measure before so you know how much has been taken off. Glad this thread is still helping people!

Wow, cannot thank you enough for the quick reply. What is a coarse stone? Is there a brand that I can search? What about the grit # of sandpaper?

Also I keep the part rounded correct? Not flatten it?

How has the cw380 been doing for you lately?

[tigman250]

Wow, cannot thank you enough for the quick reply. What is a coarse stone? Is there a brand that I can search? What about the grit # of sandpaper?

Also I keep the part rounded correct? Not flatten it?

How has the cw380 been doing for you lately?

220 grit sandpaper will work, go slow and check your progress often to prevent removal of too much material. Any course knife sharpening stone will work but must be thin enough to fit between the extractor lip and boss you are removing material from. Easiest way would probably be to pick up
a sheet of sandpaper from your local Ace Hardware, just put the sandpaper on a thin hard surface (like a paint stir stick) and use it to remove the material. Yes, don't flatten it, do your best to keep the surface round. Good luck and post your results!!

mine has not given any problems since I modified it, not one malfunction :-)

[topgun1953]

I filed mine down, flat, on the one side. It worked well, but I likely knicked the 'arm' that attaches to the extractor, causing a weak spot, because the extractor failed after several hundred rounds...it broke in two....so a word to the wise.

[CPTKILLER]

Good job.

[Tilos]

oops

[Tilos]

I filed mine down, flat, on the one side. It worked well, but I likely knicked the 'arm' that attaches to the extractor, causing a weak spot, because the extractor failed after several hundred rounds...it broke in two....so a word to the wise.

Fyi
Pillar files have a smooth edge and is what I use to get into a corner without nicking the adjoining surface.

Most needle handled file sets have files with a smooth edge, and I actually stone the edges smoother before using them.

Like these:
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...73228?fromRR=Y
just sayin'

Edit: A golf ball makes a great handle for these files...

[jtsmall]

Thanks very much for this thread.

I'm mechanically challenged so I'd really like to see the pix. If you have a smart phone, you can take pictures with that and use Tapatalk to access KahrTalk. Makes it really easy to upload pictures directly from the phone to the forum. If not, load the photos from the camera onto your computer. Then, when drafting your post or reply, click on the picture frame thingy in the top margin of the draft. You have to navigate to where the picture is on your drive, and remember to click "upload" after you select the picture file and before you post, but it works fine.

Please, when you next test the CW380 out, try using a seven round spare mag (if you have one) fully loaded with a round already in the chamber. From what I've read here recently that seems to be the acid test. I just tried it and did have a couple of problems which I didn't experience otherwise (I have the same gun bought at the same time). If that works, (and if you'll clue us how you removed the material) I'll give it a try. Otherwise, gun's new and I don't have your mechanical skills so I'm just sending it in.

FWIW, my copy of the CW380 was purchased at Bud's in Lexington KY about two months ago and even after 450 rounds I still have exactly the same issues as described by the OP with Remington and Fiocchi - to the extreme. The Fiocchi NEVER feeds with ether a nose dive into the loading ramp or caught crosswise at an angle to the barrel and in either instance tapping the slide will not chamber it. Only simultaneously retracting the slide while dropping the magazine frees the jammed cartridge.

By changing my springs and followers on both 6 and 7 round Kahr magzines to Maguts I improved the Remington to about a 3-5% failure rate but still the Fiocchi would never chamber.

I had taken photos of all the brands used to date (five) of which only two have been reliable (Hornady Critical Defense and American Eagle). Even one of those two (American Eagle) was not until several hundred rounds later. The photos were for side by side visual inspection but of course I did not notice a 15 thou descrepency!

Needless to say I have my calipers out today measuring many spent casing, looking for the tell tale differences and extractor gouges.

Two days ago out of resignation I picked up the new Ruger LCP II and everone of 30 Fiocchi and 50 American Eagles loaded and fired perfectly - 100 percent success! Therefore I'm near certain the Kahr has issues that are not just our imagination and that are correctable.

-jts



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[tigman250]

FWIW, my copy of the CW380 was purchased at Bud's in Lexington KY about two months ago and even after 450 rounds I still have exactly the same issues as described by the OP with Remington and Fiocchi - to the extreme. The Fiocchi NEVER feeds with ether a nose dive into the loading ramp or caught crosswise at an angle to the barrel and in either instance tapping the slide will not chamber it. Only simultaneously retracting the slide while dropping the magazine frees the jammed cartridge.

By changing my springs and followers on both 6 and 7 round Kahr magzines to Maguts I improved the Remington to about a 3-5% failure rate but still the Fiocchi would never chamber.

I had taken photos of all the brands used to date (five) of which only two have been reliable (Hornady Critical Defense and American Eagle). Even one of those two (American Eagle) was not until several hundred rounds later. The photos were for side by side visual inspection but of course I did not notice a 15 thou descrepency!

Needless to say I have my calipers out today measuring many spent casing, looking for the tell tale differences and extractor gouges.

Two days ago out of resignation I picked up the new Ruger LCP II and everone of 30 Fiocchi and 50 American Eagles loaded and fired perfectly - 100 percent success! Therefore I'm near certain the Kahr has issues that we are not imaging and that are correctable.

-jts



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If you still have the Kahr please try the mod, all Kahr needs to realize is they need just a tad more clearance between the breech face and the extractor hook to get reliable feeding. If you are up to it please try it, my guess is you will be at 100% with the Kahras well.

(I too bought a LCP II which now has replaced the Kahr in my pocket) shot perfectly out of the box (after cleaning of course) no modifications necessary:-)

[jtsmall]

If you still have the Kahr please try the mod, all Kahr needs to realize is they need just a tad more clearance between the breech face and the extractor hook to get reliable feeding. If you are up to it please try it, my guess is you will be at 100% with the Kahras well.

(I too bought a LCP II which now has replaced the Kahr in my pocket) shot perfectly out of the box (after cleaning of course) no modifications necessary:-)

Thanks for your keen eye and recommendations. Attached is a photo of a caliper set at 10 thou. Truly amazing the tolerances we're dealing with.

I'm a bit puzzled by one fix - removing metal from one of the two extractor pins. If the hole the rear portion of the extractor constrains forward movement (I think of a U shaped extractor sitting in a saddle) then I'm unclear how shortening either pin helps UNLESS it allows sufficient rotation of the ejector facilitating cartridge feeding and return to battery.

If so a less strong spring might be another solution.

We now have critical tolerances with a chain composed of four elements. Given the overall undeniabilty quality of the Kahr automatic pistols it's difficult to conclude this issue has been overlooked.

Then again I've read enough reports by owners, including those with my own copy, to question either the design or manufacturing and thus as to the suitability of the CW380 as a reliable self defense weapon. Reliability must be among the top concerns of both the seller and buyer.

I fully agree with your position that a self defense auto pistol must operate with all available ammo marketed for that caliber that might be at hand especially considering the diverse opinions as to the best self defense ammunition.

-jts



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[jtsmall]

If you still have the Kahr please try the mod, all Kahr needs to realize is they need just a tad more clearance between the breech face and the extractor hook to get reliable feeding. If you are up to it please try it, my guess is you will be at 100% with the Kahras well.

(I too bought a LCP II which now has replaced the Kahr in my pocket) shot perfectly out of the box (after cleaning of course) no modifications necessary:-)

Yes, I have kept the CW360. It and the series from K to CW all exhibit a level of quality and design inguinity that I find appealing.

Much the same way I think of the 1911 miracles of ingenuity by Browning and those that followed.

-jts

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[tigman250]

Thanks for your keen eye and recommendations. Attached is a photo of a caliper set at 10 thou. Truly amazing the tolerances we're dealing with.

I'm a bit puzzled by one fix - removing metal from one of the two extractor pins. If the hole the rear portion of the extractor constrains forward movement (I think of a U shaped extractor sitting in a saddle) then I'm unclear how shortening either pin helps UNLESS it allows sufficient rotation of the ejector facilitating cartridge feeding and return to battery.

If so a less strong spring might be another solution.

We now have critical tolerances with a chain composed of four elements. Given the overall undeniabilty quality of the Kahr automatic pistols it's difficult to conclude this issue has been overlooked.

Then again I've read enough reports by owners, including those with my own copy, to question either the design or manufacturing and thus as to the suitability of the CW380 as a reliable self defense weapon. Reliability must be among the top concerns of both the seller and buyer.

I fully agree with your position that a self defense auto pistol must operate with all available ammo marketed for that caliber that might be at hand especially considering the diverse opinions as to the best self defense ammunition.



-
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You are not shortening the pin, you are removing some of the diameter allowing the extractor more space on the breech face.

the problem is the clearance between the breech face and extractor hook is too tight, fiochi ammo has a thicker rim thus the constant ftf. The fiochi will not fit between the hook and breech with the slide off the firearm, stands to reason why when stripping a round from the mag it fails to return to battery, when the shell is tipped it needs even more room to allow the round to come up. By removing material from the front of the pin the extractor can come farther forward adding clearance needed for even the thicher rimmed ammo