Found solution to FTF and failure to return to battery on CW 380

[tigman250]

Yes, I have kept the CW360. It and the series from K to CW all exhibit a level of quality and design inguinity that I find appealing.

Much the same way I think of the 1911 miracles of ingenuity by Browning and those that followed.

-jts

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1911's are an engineering masterpiece, especially considering they were designed and built in the late 1800's on early manufacturing equipment! Wish I could have met John Browning

[jtsmall]

You are not shortening the pin, you are removing some of the diameter allowing the extractor more space on the breech face.

the problem is the clearance between the breech face and extractor hook is too tight, fiochi ammo has a thicker rim thus the constant ftf. The fiochi will not fit between the hook and breech with the slide off the firearm...

Yes, I follow your reasoning and find your practical solution compelling. After all, others have replicated your solution with success (and one reporting a subsequent failed extractor after repeated firings).

I will most likely do the same.

Two days ago I reviewed my ammo measurements and found other makes whose rim was out of tolerance (specs call for 35 thou upper limit). I could not accurately measure the breech face to extractor claw gap with calipers (nor do I entirely trust my rim measurements due to poor repeatability). I'll try manually fitting various loads that work and compare those to Fiocchi as you have done.

I'm wondering if there's a CNC manufacturing issue with either the slide (fitting for the extractor) or the extractor itself.

Also...

Given the relative size reduction in subcompact 380 auto pistols and load reduction of the round perhaps the offset loading ramp is a bridge too far?

I'm reminded if Ruger can succeed with the LCP II then why not Kahr? Ruger uses a hammer vs Kahr inline striker but I don't think that's at play here. The Ruger overall weight is similarly light as well.

-jts



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[jtsmall]

My copy is back home with its maker for a 500 round service as of 9/28. I am hoping for good news on its return.

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[jtsmall]

Follow up to #63 - CW380 returned to Kahr for repair WITHOUT altering the original extractor.

Sent prepaid FedEx last Thursday and received back via FedEx the following Thursday. Overnight delivery both ways and over a weekend means Kahr had it for 3-4 days.

Technical Service Work Sheet printed at 1p Tuesday, two days ago, stated action taken as...
1 update extractor
2 replaced slide stop
3 lubed
4 tested OK

Today at the range, shot the CW380 out of the box as follows...

Sig 100 gr FMJ X 20
Blazer Brass 95 gr FMJ X 22
Remington UMC 95 gr FMJ X 22
Fiocchi 95 gr FMJ X 27
Hornady Critical Defense X 3
Total 94 rounds

All rounds feed with stock Kahr 6 round mag without failures including three Hornady rounds. And all the Fiocchi of which 100% failed pre service!

All manufactures' rounds had multiple early slide lock failures with Kahr extended 7 round mag altered with 8 round Magguts spring and follower. Always first two rounds good with slide lock after second round and randomly further into the mag.

One failure to return to battery with Fiocchi in 7 round magazine.

My assessment is that the frequent failures to return to battery (and with every Fiocchi round) before repairs is fixed.

I don't believe I had nose dives into the feed ramp following repairs and I'm wondering if some of my pre-repair nose dives were mistaken early slide locks. How many, I'm unsure - but until I can prove otherwise I think none.

I'm right handed using a two handed combat grip. I lock my right thumb over my left thumb, away from the slide lock, and I doubt I rode the lock and engaged the slide accidentally either before repairs or today.

I noted at the range that the slide stop did not seem to have as strong a spring tension as I recalled before repairs. In fact it seemed loose.

When I field stripped the pistol this evening it appeared to me both on visual inspection with the slide stop installed and once removed (download the photo and enlarge/zoom as required) that the spring is not long enough to engage the tang on the slide stop. If so, that would is explain the premature slide locks.

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/581c12eb...33522-01.jpeg?

If you agree what's the fix?

Why no premature slide locks on the six round mag and all occurring with the seven round mag?

-jts

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[erichard]

<<Why no premature slide locks on the six round mag and all occurring with the seven round mag?

-jts

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]>>

I no longer use the 7 round mags and actually asked Kahr to swap out the one I had for a six rounder (wanted the 7 rounder to work, but no). I was never able to get it to work reliably. Unlike other guns, other brands perhaps, when you put pressure on the mag extension, it cants the upper tip of the mag, possibly into that slide lock tab (tip of uppermost bullet, especially when these rounds scoot forward as they seem to do). I did shave back the slide lock tab in order to prevent premature slide lock, but there is a limit at which you will fail to get an actual slide lock when you need it. I just simply gave up on the 7 rounder and have not looked back. I have Magguts in the six rounder for a 7+1 load altogether. Good enough for social work.

[jtsmall]

I just simply gave up on the 7 rounder and have not looked back. I have Magguts in the six rounder for a 7+1 load altogether. Good enough for social work.

Thanks for the insight.

The issues you discussed with the 7 round extension concerned me as well. Especially the cant first time I used that mag.

Yesterday I bought a second 6 rounder and will ask Kahr support if they'll exchange that 7 rounder.

Maybe Magguts will work with me too though I don't see it as their problem. I have been using Magguts in the 6 rounder (for 7 rounds) and no issues specific to it so far as I can tell.

-jts

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[Rd97]

Not very handy myself so had a gunsmith remove .015 from the extractor as suggested and now the cw380 will run maxxtech like a dream. Before it wouldn't go into battery. Good fix.

[tigman250]

Not very handy myself so had a gunsmith remove .015 from the extractor as suggested and now the cw380 will run maxxtech like a dream. Before it wouldn't go into battery. Good fix.

Glad it helped!

I'm honored, I see this was made a sticky!

[zredwire]

I would love to see Alfonse at Lakeline LLC make the correct length extractor. I would sure purchase one. I may have to invest in the tools to do the mod myself. I guess the main tool would be a caliper as I don't have a reliable way to measure the thickness. Then maybe some files or stones, though it looks like it can be done with sand paper?

[Tilos]

I would love to see Alfonse at Lakeline LLC make the correct length extractor. I would sure purchase one. I may have to invest in the tools to do the mod myself. I guess the main tool would be a caliper as I don't have a reliable way to measure the thickness. Then maybe some files or stones, though it looks like it can be done with sand paper?

Not sure why some call them "needle files" rather needle handled files but that's what you'll need, and a small vise will be helpful too.
I buy some similar to these, without any handles, a golf ball makes a great handle...
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piec...-set-4614.html

And vise something like this, if you don't have one, or you could use vise grips to hold the extractor for filing:
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-h...ise-97160.html
If all this is new to you, I'd suggest buying an extra extractor to have on hand, just in case something goes wrong

[LeeTn]

Technical Service Work Sheet printed at 1p Tuesday, two days ago, stated action taken as...
1 update extractor
2 replaced slide stop
3 lubed
4 tested OK

"update extractor"? Does that mean that it has been redesigned?

[boscobarbell]

"update extractor"? Does that mean that it has been redesigned?

Bumping this to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm still on the fence regarding the CW380, but this would probably push me to give it another try.....

[dsk]

I bought a replacement extractor from Midway late last year, and the only difference was that it was MIM instead of machined like my old one. It still had the same sharp, pointy edge at the bottom that required slight dressing with a file.

[gb6491]

I bought a replacement extractor from Midway late last year, and the only difference was that it was MIM instead of machined like my old one. It still had the same sharp, pointy edge at the bottom that required slight dressing with a file.

For a second there, you had me thinking I was on a Glock forum

[dsk]

I tried a box of Fiocchi FMJ ammo in my P380 today, and sure enough I had 1-2 failures to fully go into battery with each magazine. Just a slight push on the back of the slide with my off-hand thumb and it went home. I then switched to a box of Herters ammo and had no problems. For now I'm probably just going to accept that there's a gun/ammo incompatibility and burn up my remaining Fiocchi ammo in my Glock 42. It's not like it's my carry ammo anyway.