CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED

[gb6491]

Any CW45/P45 owners interested in a flush fit magazine option?
The base mag is less expensive than Kahr OEM magazines, but it's very good quality. The magazine will require some modifications, but they can be done with a file or Dremel tool.
It works flawlessly for me as a 6 round magazine (using a Kahr follower and spring) with proper "lock back" function: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine.
It will work as a 7 round magazine (using the follower and spring that comes in it), but will not lock the slide back. Regardless of this, I think it very usable: especially if you carry without a spare mag: YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit 7 round magazine.

Note: Though I prefer using the Kahr follower and spring, camsden1 reports this mod can be done to a Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazine (MGCO4506) to include locking back with the Mec-Gar components (follower and spring) installed.

Again, this is how I did it, not a "how to": proceed with any modifications at your own risk.


Here's a comparison shot:

Mec-Gar magazine on the left (note style of follower);

My apologies for the corny videos

NOTE to P45 owners: magazines may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94

Regards,
Greg

[Mr. Zero]

I am very interested. Is this something you do, or do you have instructions for someone to do the conversion themselves?

Also, I thought it was the follower that activated the slide lock, if thats the case, why does it not work on the 7 round version?

[gb6491]

I am very interested. Is this something you do, or do you have instructions for someone to do the conversion themselves?

Also, I thought it was the follower that activated the slide lock, if thats the case, why does it not work on the 7 round version?

Hi,
Thanks for the reply
It's just something I am experimenting with. I'll put together a short "how I did it" post in the near future.
You are correct that the follower activates the slide stop; there is a small shelf on the follower that engages the stop and pushes it up into place when the magazine is empty. The problem with the seven round version is that it uses the follower and spring that came with the magazine. The shelf on this follower, being set up for a 1911 spec. slide stop, does not have enough height to activate the stop. It might be possible to add height to the shelf with a metal insert (ala the Kahr follower), but I haven't pursued that as of yet.
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I'll look forward to that as well although I'd like to adapt to a PM45. The followers in Wilson Magazines work perfectly and lock the slide in my PM45 in the wilson mag. I have not attempted to put that follower in a Kahr magazine. I may try that when I find the time. Flush would sure be nice.

[VAguy]

Just what I have been wanting for my CW45, looking forward to more info also.

-VAguy

[MikeyKahr]

Glasses!?

Would someone find ryoung's glasses already!?

[cincinnatijim]

Greg, I'd like to learn more about this as you continue this project. I have a P45.

[beans]

I do not have a CW 45 but I do have a CW 40 and wish that Kahr made all their magazines flush fit.

[gb6491]

Hi all,

First a preface: The following is intended to convey how I did it (or what worked for me) not a “how to do it”. I think that statement necessary because manufacturing tolerances could mean that things that work in my pistol might not work in yours. If you want to try this in your pistol please proceed at your own risk.

Here is some info on the flush fit magazine.

The magazine I am using is from Metalform: (the blued version of this):
Metalform Pistol Magazine

I bought it from Brownells ($16.16 at the moment): METALFORM : .45/Officers ACP Blue 7 Rd. Nylon Follower w/Welded Base (620-245-117) - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools The base wasn't welded, but is not removable.
*note: you need to log in at Brownells to see their discounted pricing.

The magazine may or may not lock into place as it comes. If it doesn’t, the fit can be adjusted by removing some material from the top of the latch window (cut out) on the right front of the magazine. Do this slowly, checking often for fit. Once the magazine locks in place, make sure it does so fully. If it doesn’t you may need to remove material from the other surfaces of the latch window.

NOTE to P45 owners: The modified magazine may fit closer to the bottom of the frame in your guns than it does in the CW45. I don't have a p45 to confirm this, but it certainly appears so in LSP972's post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=58903&postcount=94
This may (or may not) require a little work on the bottom of the frame to accommodate the magazine.

Once the magazine locks into place, the top of the magazine must be adjusted to clear the bottom of the slide and extractor. Do this by removing material forward of the feed lips. Again, do this slowly, checking often for fit.
YouTube - Why Officer's magazines need to be modified to work in the Kahr CW45

Note: See VAguy's post for some excellent tips on doing these modifications - http://kahrtalk.com/36325-post35.html

Here's a shot of an unmodified Officer's magazine, the modified Metalform magazine, and a Kahr magazine:

Here are the modifications:

The amount of material that needed to be removed:

Profile of the unmodified Officer's magazine and the modified one:

Top view of the modified magazine (left) and a Kahr magazine:

Round position (Kahr on the left, modified magazine right):

I prefer to have the slide lock back, so I'm going with a Kahr follower and spring installed in the modified officer's magazine (6 round capacity). Here's a photo for comparison (modified magazine with Kahr internals left and a stock Kahr CW45 magazine on the right):

YouTube - CW45: hand cycling from a 7 round, modified Officer's magazine

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Alert: camsden1 reports that certain Mec-Gar magazines have a follower that will lock the slide back: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=40290&postcount=63

wyntrout posted info on where to find these magazines:

CDNN has the Nickel and the blued Mec-Gar Officers 6-rounders for $13.99 each. The shipping is $9.99 for all that you order, so load up.
Officers 45acp 6rd Blue Mag New Mec-Gar
Wynn

*I now (01-07-2011) have one of these magazines and the slide does lock back during manual manipulation. However, I had multiple instances where the slide failed to lock back during live fire drills. This might be do to tolerance stacking in my CW45 compared to camsden1's gun. I still think the magazine worth a look. If it does work consistently in other guns, all is good. If not, the Kahr follower and spring can be installed in the tube.
*Revisited this magazine (8-2-2011) and removed a little more material from the top of it. Tested it at the range and it worked as per camsden 1's report.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Other posts/threads to see:
Seven rounds and lock back with the Wilson mag rebuild kit -
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=67867&postcount=113

Adjusting Chip McCormick follower to lock the slide back - http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=77503&postcount=158

Modified Kahr magazine (shortened with with Kimber base plate) -
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=82170&postcount=188

CW45 7Rd Flush Fit MAG that locks 100% - http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7813
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Wow! Nice presentation, Greg.
Wynn

[gb6491]

Thanks Wynn

[VAguy]

Well done, thank you. 1 mag ordered :-)

[VAguy]

Here's a photo with a Kahr follower and spring installed in the modified officer's magazine (stock Kahr magazine on the right):

Any tricks to moving the Kahr follower and spring over to the modified mag?

Do you retain the 7-round capacity when doing this?

[gb6491]

Any tricks to moving the Kahr follower and spring over to the modified mag?

Do you retain the 7-round capacity when doing this?

Here ya go:
YouTube - Installing a Kahr follower into a modified Metalform Officer's magazine.

Unfortunately, no 7-round capacity with the Kahr follower. This is becuase of the way the Kahr follower is shaped: the larger coil, 7 round spring will not work with it, so you need to use the Kahr spring. This will limit you to 6 rounds (I haven't played with trimming the Kahr spring yet).

BTW, (as I didn't put it in the video) to remove the follower and spring from the Metalform magazine:
Load four rounds and put something through the holes in the magazine body (same as in the video); remove the rounds, then shake/poke/wiggle/pull the follower out of the magazine. Now, put the magazine mouth up against something (so the spring doesn't fly out) and release the pressure on the magazine spring; once pressure is released, remove the spring from the magazine body.

Regards,
Greg

[nwohsy]

Not to hijack this thread, but it has been an inspiration to me. Last night I pulled out some of my 1911 magazines to experiment on my P45. I found out that my Wilson ETM 8 round magazine fit perfectly without modification to the magazine release or feed lips, however there was no slide lock. I then tried an 8 round Chip McCormick Power Mag, which snapped into place, but was a little tight at the top. After a little file work as described in this thread, I found that the Chip McCormick Power Mag snapped into place and created slide lock using its' Shooting Star follower.

I then took everything to the range today. The Wilson fed perfectly, however there was no slide lock, as previously mentioned. The Power Mag fed perfectly and created slide lock. Now I realize that both of these magazines are 8 rounders that stick out the bottom. But wait, there's more.

Chip McCormick makes a 7 round officers Match Grade magazine that would appear to be a flush fit with just a slight modification to the top of the magazine. When I returned home from the range I ordered 3 which I will modify.

I am cautiously optimistic. A P45 with a 7 round flush fit magazine that creates slide lock would be very cool. I'll report back with the results.