CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED

[wyntrout]

A six rounder might fit, but seven shouldn't fit flush. I've gotten 6 in the Kahr tube with metal followers. Look at Bawanna's post with pictures. He posted pic of 7, 8, and 10 rounders inserted into his PM45.... Oh, apples and oranges... Doh! Pee 45!
Never mind.
Wynn

[gb6491]

nwohsy,
Welcome to the forums!

Your input to this thread is most welcome. I really look forward to hearing how the Chip McCormick 7 round officer's magazines work out.

I tried every combo of springs and followers I had on hand for my 1911s. My government size Wilson mags will lock the slide back, but the follower gets in the way afterward (have to drop it to close the slide); still it might be worth looking at one of their Officer's size magazines.
The Colt OACP magazine is a very good fit and would probably need only a slight amount of material removed from it compared to the other Officer's sized magazines I have on hand. I've used it's follower and spring in my modified magazine and it works fine: locks the slide back, but it's only six round capacity.
None of my 7 round Officer's magazines (Mec-Gar and Shooting Stars) will lock the slide back, putting their springs and followers into the modified magazine yields the same results. That said, I don't think it would be much of a chore to build one of their metal followers up high enough to work the slide stop. I think a piece of shim stock soldered, screwed, or glued into place would do the trick.

Anyway, keep us apprised of your efforts and thanks for the solid input already given.

Regards,
Greg

BTW, I really like carrying with the flush fit magazine. I have about 300 rounds through it (using both the 6 and 7 round follower/spring combos) with nary an issue.

[jlottmc]

I like that 7 round option, and for me if an 8 sticks out a little more I'm cool with that too. I think I may use some of my older 1911 mags and see what happens.

[Catshooter]

Long time ago I posted this thread:http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...y-pm-45-a.html

I would think that with the right mag you should be able to get 7 in a P pistol, I got 6 into the PM. In fact, if you look at the pic you'll see that my set up is actually a bit less than flush with the butt of the PM.

Be nice if Kahr would adopt these changes so we could have more rounds in factory mags.

Anybody at Kahr listening?


Cat

[gb6491]

Long time ago I posted this thread:http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...y-pm-45-a.html

I would think that with the right mag you should be able to get 7 in a P pistol, I got 6 into the PM. In fact, if you look at the pic you'll see that my set up is actually a bit less than flush with the butt of the PM.

Be nice if Kahr would adopt these changes so we could have more rounds in factory mags.

Anybody at Kahr listening?


Cat

Cat,
Thanks for pointing out the thread on your PM45 magazine project; that was very nicely done. Kudos to VMO as well!
There was also excellent input from other members in both threads, so I've taken the liberty of including links to both threads and some quoted posts here.
Regards,
Greg

I have been lurking here for awhile, registered today to tell y'all a story.

I love my PM45. I've had to work with it a bit to make it work like it should, even had to send it back to Kahr. They paid both ways, and now it works. Very accurate pistol too.

One thing I would change about it however is no flush mag. I want both, the regular mag and a flush mag, like the PM9. I emailed Kahr about it. Nice guy emailed my back quickly and said they have no plans to make any. *sigh*

I tried shortening one of the factory mags but I failed. Stainless steel is sometimes no fun to work with.

Then the other day here I read a post by vom about using a Colt 1911 mag in his. Ooooo. Lights went on. So I grabbed one of mine, a Springfield Armory seven round blued mag and went to work. Cut it, and spot welded the base back on. Took it out and shot it, nope, the base came of right away.

So, back to the shop. Thought about solder, but didn't like the idea. So I broke out the oxy/actelene and just welded the base plate to the mag.

Shot it tonight and it works! Fed great, the only thing it didn't do was lock the slide back as of course the two followers are very different. Here's a pic:





I did make one small alteration to the pistol, I filed a small notch in the frame to clear the toe of the mag base plate. I wanted flush!

Thanks for the inspiration vmo, now this fine piece is a pocket piece at last.


Cat

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol....html#post9213

Update:

Sorry it took so long to get the photos uploaded. I needed to do some testing and tweaking. I've got them reliable and useable. Here are the pictures:







It sure fits in the pocket better now. You would be amazed how much space 1/4 inch takes up in a pocket!

Vmo

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...mags-pm45.html

[Catshooter]

It is amazing how much a quarter inch is in a pocket. In my original post I forgot to mention that that mag you see in the pic has six rounds in it. Kinda cool, I thought.


Cat

[gb6491]

It is amazing how much a quarter inch is in a pocket. In my original post I forgot to mention that that mag you see in the pic has six rounds in it. Kinda cool, I thought.
Cat

I find that missing quarter inch is also noticeable IWB and I agree an extra round is kinda cool.

Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

I do not have a CW 45 but I do have a CW 40 and wish that Kahr made all their magazines flush fit.

Beans,
Have you tried the metal base plate for the flush fit PM40/Covert models on your CW40's magazine?
Regards,
Greg

[Mr. Zero]

I just picked up a 7 round Mc Cormick Officers match grade mag to try this myself. I will do a pictorial of my efforts.

[Mr. Zero]

I got my 7 round Mc Cormick Officers Match grade mag in the mail today. It snaps in place perfectly with the slide open. It operates the slide stop and has the same fed angle as the OEM mag. I will do the file the top of the mag and check for function.

[nwohsy]

Sorry I wasn't able to post, but that malware thing kept me away. I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911. I don't know why it did not happen when I used the 8 round Power Mag. I just placed an order with Midway for 3 Wilson 47 OXC 7 round Officers magazines with low profile base plate. Hopefully the Wilson magazines will be delivered in time for my next range outing on 10/7. I will report back on my findings

Mr Zero I hope you have better luck than I did. I already sold off the 3 CMC Officers magazines to a friend of mine. I have just now CAREFULLY examined the Kahr P45 magazine. The follower is not a straight plane. The front 1/3 of the follower, under the bullet, actually dips down slightly relative to the back 2/3 under the casing. If you experience any problems feeding with the CMC Officers magazine and want to experiment, here is my suggestion;

First try bending the follower down slightly so it is on horizontal plane parallel with the slide. If that fails, then try increasing the distance between the top and bottom of the follower. This should cause the follower to remain inside the magazine tube. Remember if there is too much distance, then you may reduce the capacity back down to 6 rounds, which is really not that big a deal because the CMC fits very flush, which is what we are looking for.

Of course this epiphany came to me just 30 minutes ago. My friend, whom I sold the magazines to will be out of the area for 3 more weeks, so I can't experiment for myself. Mr Zero I hope you are the experimenting type, because I'm impatient, and I would like to see these work. If not I'll give it a try when my friend gets back and I have access to the CMC Officers magazine. I will continue to be cautiously optimistic for the Wilson Officers magazine to work.

[Bawanna]

For what it's worth the Wilson mags work flawlessly in my PM45. I've used the 47D 8 rounders and the 47OX which is the officers model size. They lock the slide back and lock in real fine. Course they stick out in the PM. I was happy because my full size 1911 mags will also work in the bug. One less thing ya know?

[wyntrout]

I posted this earlier on another thread:

I just ordered some stuff from Midway to make a peace offering for Franken-Boomer

ItemID Qty Price Description
-------- ---- ------- -----------------------------------
818121 1 $23.99 Colt Magazine 1911 Officer 45 ACP SS six-round

171154 1 $7.99 Wilson Combat Magazine Follower & spring kit, 8-round(?)

435620 1 $4.99 Pachmayr Contoured Magazine Follower (very minimal stainless steel)

I'm hoping to cobble together a 6-round magazine for CCW. Those parts and what I have already ought to give me something to play with for a while. I couldn't find any metal floor plates there... in stock. They had lots of S&W bases listed, but 60 days or so to order... plus no pictures of those, but I'll bet some might have worked... with a bit of modification. The total cost of new parts is less than one Kahr magazine, and if things don't work out, I can probably sell some of the stuff left over.
Wynn

[Mr. Zero]

Sorry I wasn't able to post, but that malware thing kept me away. I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911. I don't know why it did not happen when I used the 8 round Power Mag. I just placed an order with Midway for 3 Wilson 47 OXC 7 round Officers magazines with low profile base plate. Hopefully the Wilson magazines will be delivered in time for my next range outing on 10/7. I will report back on my findings

Mr Zero I hope you have better luck than I did. I already sold off the 3 CMC Officers magazines to a friend of mine. I have just now CAREFULLY examined the Kahr P45 magazine. The follower is not a straight plane. The front 1/3 of the follower, under the bullet, actually dips down slightly relative to the back 2/3 under the casing. If you experience any problems feeding with the CMC Officers magazine and want to experiment, here is my suggestion;

First try bending the follower down slightly so it is on horizontal plane parallel with the slide. If that fails, then try increasing the distance between the top and bottom of the follower. This should cause the follower to remain inside the magazine tube. Remember if there is too much distance, then you may reduce the capacity back down to 6 rounds, which is really not that big a deal because the CMC fits very flush, which is what we are looking for.

Of course this epiphany came to me just 30 minutes ago. My friend, whom I sold the magazines to will be out of the area for 3 more weeks, so I can't experiment for myself. Mr Zero I hope you are the experimenting type, because I'm impatient, and I would like to see these work. If not I'll give it a try when my friend gets back and I have access to the CMC Officers magazine. I will continue to be cautiously optimistic for the Wilson Officers magazine to work.

Well, This morning I got to work on my CMC 7 round officer's mag for my P45.

First, I wrapped a piece of heavy paper around the Kahr mag and scribed the top profile of the stock mag. Then I cut out the heavy paper to create a pattern that I transfered to the CMC mag.

I noticed that the curled feed lips on the Kahr mag were 1/8" longer than the CMC mag. The CMC mag also had a longer feed lip on the extractor side than it did on the ejector side. Since this would leave too much material above the feed lips, I had to modify the cutting pattern on the CMC mag to extend the material to be removed all the way back to where the feed lips started.

Then I got to work with my handy drummel tool (no hobby gunsmith jokes please) and removed the marked material. after a test fit, it was still touching the underside of the slide below the extractor when I pushed up on the mag, (not so when it just clicked into place) so I removed a little more material so it cleared.

I cleaned up the burrs and re-assembled the magazine and checked for function. It locked back the slide and was not hitting anything, so I loaded up a mag, locked the slide back and dropped the slide stop.... "curchunk" it chambered a round. I then pulled the slide back and manually engaged the slide stop and repeated . I did that 7 times and cycled 7 rounds without any issues.

Obervations:

Obviously, I have not had a chance to shoot the gun yet, I will try to go out tomorrow and see how the mag performs under actual use. At t he bench, it seems to work great.

The feed angle on the CMC mag is ever so slightly flatter that the stock mag, so slight in fact, that you really have to look hard to see the difference, but it is there. When loading, the round hits the feed ramp just a tad lower than the Kahr mag.

I was a bit curious about the way the follower pulls forward when it's unloaded, but when its in the gun and feeds the last round, there is no issues with the empty mag hitting the internals of the gun or dropping free when the mag release is activated.

I will keep everyone posted on the results of the field test.

-Zero-


I have a question for Bawanna45cal:

When you say the Wilson mags function flawlessly in your PM45, are you using them in their stock configuration or are you having to modify the top of the mag tube to get the slide to clear?

[wyntrout]

VMO, I'm not trying to be critical, and I like what you've done, but I wanted to point out a possible problem with the fully flush-fitting magazines, without any part to grip. I have had malfunctions... stovepipes where the empty case is caught within the ejection port and the next live round is partially chambered, jamming the slide AND the magazine so that it would not fall free. This could be a real problem in a critical situation. We normally shoot two-handed and have to worry about "limp wristing" under controlled situations. In a real-world defense situation, we might be forced to shoot hurriedly or with one hand, increasing the risk of the stove-pipe jam where the magazine doesn't drop free with just the push of the mag-release button.
A show-stopping malfunction like this could be a real possibility. How would you get the magazine out? I could pull mine out by gripping the floorplate. Your mods leave nothing to grip.
I just wanted to bring this up in case you haven't had these problems or thoughts about them.
Wynn