Bad Habits

[rkirk]

I took my CW9 to the range yesterday and had fun day, but shot terrible! I now have over 900 rounds through the pistol. I have developed some bad habits and at any distance past 20 feet pull to the side and down. As a lefty that means low right. At 60 feet I was only able to place one of two shots on a standard IDPA target. I was consistent and managed to repeat this miserable performance three more times! So I have been lazy and need to work on dry fire and proper grip. Because I shoot my Hi-Power much better I have to be honest and admit that I can that I can be sloppy and still shoot that pistol well. No excuse I have work to do, so encouragement and advise please. I have not ever shot double action with any real accuracy or consistency. I may need some hands on lessons. What ever it takes, I am crazy about my CW9!

-- Richard

[Bawanna]

The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

You can do it.

I had a very similar experience last trip to the range myself. It was just bad karma from the minute I left the house. Later than usual, hence concern about crowding, my son in slow motion mode and me in fast, turtle and the hare syndrome. Then fighting my ill conceived handloads that I've now I beleive cured.
I took 6 head shots at 25 yards with my PM 45 and the head came out completely unscathed. No idea where those 6 bullets went but not where I wanted them too.
Guess I have some work to do also but it's the kind of work I enjoy.

You can do it. Keep us in the loop.

[jeep45238]

Yup...going through that myself.

Training it out of myself with a M57 and empty casings randomly in the magazine. Single action and random snaps is a great way to take care of the problem, if your gun won't feed empty casings.

My windage is fine, elevation is suffering. Guess that's a side effect of not getting to the range as much as I want.

[Kingcreek]

Start out a training session with focus on accuracy thru proper trigger control. The long DAO Kahr trigger takes some getting used to (or atleast it did for me). Start closer to the target and shoot slowly and deliberately. As you see your group size shrink and actually hitting the target where you want them to, THEN move a little farther back or try more rapid strings. I would rather spend an hour of range time firing 50 well placed rounds and develop more skill than hose out 300 misses and further ingrain some bad habits. Its easier to train right than "unlearn" bad habits.

[Bawanna]

An thats the truth right there. Unlearning bad things is not easy.

I laugh at new folks at the range that break out their shiney new gun, run the target down to the 25 yard line and start blasting, while I have my target at 3 yards with an old friend for a gun.

I do seem to have very good days and very bad days. On the bad days I think it's almost best to just knock off, BS with the range guys and try again another day.

Anyone else experience this phenomonen?

[recoilguy]

The other day I was at the range and I told the guy, frank, at the range if he needed someone to fill in for him sometime or if he wanted to shoot I would gladly sit ther take money and talk guns with guys because I would enjoy that a lot more then I did the results of my hour of shooting. So I hung around for another hour and just BSed pistols.

RCG

[OldLincoln]

I don't shoot as often or as much as most here. When I have been away for a while, I pose a bit bringing my gun up to shooting position and try to get my grip back. It's not very natural to me yet, kind of like my golf swing used to be. Played golf religiously, every Easter and Christmas, and never did get the hang of it.

For me the trick is to take the first mag 1 shot at a time and each very deliberately, looking at the result and consider the cause. With my eyes, I had to start bringing my small binoculars to see the target at 7yds. Anyway, I find that when I put it together, strangle grip & pushing hands together with the arms locking that puppy in, that my shots begin to count.

Some days are like magic and shots go where my mind tells them to. Since I can't see the sights I point shoot so that's a really good feeling. I leave with the "Watch out bad guys, I'm armed and very dangerous!" attitude.

[jocko]

welcome

I took my CW9 to the range yesterday and had fun day, but shot terrible! I now have over 900 rounds through the pistol. I have developed some bad habits and at any distance past 20 feet pull to the side and down. As a lefty that means low right. At 60 feet I was only able to place one of two shots on a standard IDPA target. I was consistent and managed to repeat this miserable performance three more times! So I have been lazy and need to work on dry fire and proper grip. Because I shoot my Hi-Power much better I have to be honest and admit that I can that I can be sloppy and still shoot that pistol well. No excuse I have work to do, so encouragement and advise please. I have not ever shot double action with any real accuracy or consistency. I may need some hands on lessons. What ever it takes, I am crazy about my CW9!

-- Richard

join the jocko left hand shooting club...

kahrs have to be IMO the most difficult of all guns to shoot . The loooooong trigger is there by design but it will give you fits. I know, it gives me fits. I don't shoot it 1/10th as good as I do my G19. Lets face it not all people probably most people even are not 'good" shooters. Some guns will make u shine, like my tuned G19 and some guns will make you cry, like my tuned PM9. I admit i am not a good shooter. I just don't think there are to many people out there that can shoot a PM9 as good as a G19, I really believe that. Now one or two might prove me wrong but they are the upper top of good shooters to. But for the every day "Joe" , it just ain't gonna happen. accept your kahr for what it was desinged for. It is a close up personal defense gun that willno doubt save your life and will always be there when you need it. If you really wanna hit shotshell casing at 20 yards, best buy another gun. We all have seen 100's of shot grouping targets on this forum and lets face it not to many will cut a fat hog in the ass either..

[rkirk]

Bad Habits

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the encouragement. Compared to some of the shooters I see in IDPA shoots I am a mid range or lower score shooter. I admit I am a wanna be Master, you know one of those guys that shoot in a third or forth of the time everyone else completes a stage with only 1 or 2 points down. Well, at 68 with stiff joints and trifocal glasses it will never happen.

What I hope for is to carry my CW9 in the CTAC and be able to draw the pistol in a safe manner and shoot well enough to protect my family and myself if all else fails and I am backed against the wall. I am part way there and only need to work on grip and trigger control to build confidence in using this pistol. It really is good to know other CCW guys and gals struggle with many of the same issues.

You are correct comparing golf and shooting. It only take one decent days shooting to make you think all of the time and money is well spent!

So thank you to this forum and fellow members, you are a great resource.

-- Richard

[Bawanna]

I'd remove that "it will never happen" phrase from your vocabulary. Redirect that towards I'm gonna be the first trifocal wearing 68 year old to take the national IDPA championships.
Log it in as a personal challenge. If you want it bad enough you'll find a way.

[jocko]

quote:Thanks for the encouragement. Compared to some of the shooters I see in IDPA shoots I am a mid range or lower score shooter. I admit I am a wanna be Master, you know one of those guys that shoot in a third or forth of the time everyone else completes a stage with only 1 or 2 points down. Well, at 68 with stiff joints and trifocal glasses it will never happen

I bet practically every shooter to, is also not shooint a kahr. If one goes into those shoots for the knowledge it cang ive and the training you can get form it and then enjoy it for what it is, as it is only a "game" no more no less, another way for shooters to spend money.

My bet if there are any master shooters at where you shoot, THEY ARE NOT SHOOTING KAHRS EITHER..

[garyb]

rkirk,
We all have bad days. When I was young, I had sniper hawk eyes. Now I need special bifocal safety glasses to see the front sight clearly. I get safety glasses with bifocal lens on top and bottom of a non prescription lens, so my head position is right when I shoot. I break every problem down into manageable components. I'd start by making sure you see the front sight well.

Then I'd focus on the trigger. Practice dry firing at home (when the boss lady is gone). FEEL the trigger take up and get used to squeezing it to the point that you know it will release. Do this over and over again, until you really know the feel of your trigger. For a lefty to pull low, right, I'd suggest you put more trigger finger on the trigger. Experiment with how much trigger you have on the trigger and where your shot goes. As a lefty, if you shoot low right, you need to put more trigger finger pad, or even the first joint on the trigger. If you start shooting left, use less trigger finger and move back toward the pad or tip of the finger. Figure out what exact point on your trigger finger needs to contact the trigger to keep it perpendicular to the trigger (so you don't pull left or right). Each time keep your sight on and squeeze to the point of release, then follow through by keeping your front sight on the target and squeezing through gently on the trigger. By taking up the trigger pull, you only need to squeeze a fraction to release it and this will make it almost like a hair trigger. Push with your left hand (left handers) with the left hand relaxed (not really loose, but relaxed); while squeezing with your right hand and pulling back with your right hand. By keeping your trigger hand relaxed, you have more trigger control and are able to squeeze the trigger finger directly back 90 degrees to the trigger. This relaxed perpendicular trigger fingers prevents pulling the gun left or right. Enough said to experiment with for now.

I strongly suggest you go to www.frontsight.com and order their dry fire hand gun manual and follow the instruction.

Please understand this is merely my humble input and I hope you take it as it was intended...to help and in no way to criticize or anything like that. Break down your shooting into manageable components to work on each problem until it is fixed and the repair work becomes a routine habit that you no longer need to think about. Think about each single thing separately from the others. Only one problem at a time. Practice the solution over and over and over again, until it is locked in and requires no more additional thought.

Finally, a crimson trace laser is a fine training tool for dry fire practice. You immediately know when you squeezed the trigger right or wrong, without ever firing a shot. Engrain that feeling and carry it through to the range or real life needs.

I sincerely hope this gives you something to think about and the very best of luck to you. The good days of shooting will pop up again to make it fun and bring back the confidence.
Respectfully

[Kingcreek]

Many moons ago, I had a chance to shoot with and watch some of the masters of the mid and late 80's. I stood behind Rob Leatham, Brian Enos, and a number of others and watched them do thier magic with comp'd race gun 1911s. I watched Jerry Miculik do things with a S&W wheel gun that nobody should be able to do. NONE of those guys started out shooting that way. It was many hours and many rounds and lots of serious training and equipment and modifications that got them there. I learned alot from Rob Leatham but I never could shoot like those guys. Kahr triggers are good at doing what they are supposed to do and maybe the right person with the right determination could learn to race them, but I'll be satisfied to just be proficient with mine in the ways I need to be, when I need to be.
{Pssst, I even had a beer with Col Jeff Cooper once.}
There, I'm done bragging now.

garyb is right on with the trigger talk but I was too lazy to try to put it into words and he did a better job than I could have anyway.

[dusty10]

I would like to be a better shooter than I am too. And like most guys, I have my good days and bad. There are guns that make me better than I really am, but the reality is with limited time and resources to spend on practice, I'm going to spend the most time and resources with my carry piece(s). That would be one of my Kahrs. I will not be discouraged. I will become proficient. That is my mindset. Now all I need to do is practice more.

[94zcar]

Lots of good suggestions....Thought I would add mine.
Try staging the trigger, to just before it breaks. Less chance of pulling the shot that way.