One in the pipe

[Richardh]

You can bet any police officer will have one in the pipe. It is your choice.

[ReFracture]

Looking at how the firing pin block safety functions on the Kahr, it is very clear that the gun will not fire without the trigger being pulled. I carry 6+1 with my kahr, 7 round mag as back up.

It's true that with practice you can chamber a round very quickly, but with a small gun where there is little to hold onto, as well as a stiff recoil spring where you MUST sling shot it with some serious authority (otherwise a Kahr pistol wont feed it), it is simply foolish to carry with an empty chamber. Good luck chambering a Kahr under stress.

People who don't feel comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber should keep in mind as others have said, that police do exactly that. If it was unsafe, you would hear about it being an issue.. but the reality is people don't often carry single action revolvers anymore.

[Chogers]

Pipe!!!

I like the safety on my pm9. I can carry one in the pipe all day and pull the trigger and nothing will happen unless that safety it pushed up. Yes I said up. Its backward on the Kahr but its actually very easy to manipulate with enough practice. Your gun is an extension of your body. Know how to use it under stressful situations and it can save your life!

[Krusty]

Good luck getting the safety deactivated during a life and death struggle!

[Chogers]

Good luck getting the safety deactivated during a life and death struggle!

It wont be a problem when its second nature to remove safety at the same time I pull the gun from my holster. Only people that are trained to do this can really say its a great feature.

[fitpro]

It wont be a problem when its second nature to remove safety at the same time I pull the gun from my holster. Only people that are trained to do this can really say its a great feature.

^^^^To put that statement to the test I would suggest taking an ECQC class from Craig Douglass aka Southnarc. In a real fight just getting your gun drawn and in position to fire is a HUGE struggle. I hate to even consider adding the difficulty of a manual safety. Check out some of the ECQC videos on Youtube. I think according to the FBI, 1.7 or 1.8 BGs are involved in the average assualt, and I don't think that includes the times where a 2nd or 3rd BG guy didn't enter the fight because the 1st BG had the situation handled. ECQC is the crucible where myths about a what happens in a real fight get replaced with a hard dose of reality.

[Krusty]

Most people forget that Epinephrine rush that is critically missing in any kind of gun training because no one kicks the **** out of you in training.Best and fastest response ..... one in the pipe and no safety!

[lj23893]

Always carry with a round in the chamber.

[MikeG]

I like the safety on my pm9. I can carry one in the pipe all day and pull the trigger and nothing will happen unless that safety it pushed up. Yes I said up. Its backward on the Kahr but its actually very easy to manipulate with enough practice. Your gun is an extension of your body. Know how to use it under stressful situations and it can save your life!

Actually the safety/deco*kers on my S&W and the M9 are both up to fire so I wouldn't say it was backwards at all. It's that "other" pistol that has it backwards! It also becomes a perfectly natural part of the firing sequence to push it up as you point, with enough practice. And it doesn't take much, really. I almost wish my PM9 had one sometimes. Actually, I don't. But it wouldn't bother me one bit if it did.

And IMO, carrying one less and betting that you have both the time and good fortune to get a flawless slide rack completed before you NEED to pull that trigger is optimistic at best, fatally foolish at worst. Keep it in a good holster, it won't fire spontaneously for no apparent reason. The trigger has to be pulled for it to go bang.

[TonyT]

Do you conceal and carry your cm9 with one in the pipe? i do with any gun i'am carrying.

Yes, always. It makes little sense in a serious defensive situation to have to pull the gun and rack the slide.

[jocko]

some

Good luck getting the safety deactivated during a life and death struggle!

people buy a semi auto and have zero experience in gun usage and then maybe a safety cold be a hindrance, butr also thgat gun owner himself could be a real hindrance also. so we blame the safety then, I think not.

IMO I see no real issue with a guns safety, if u train and shoot. Nice thing is one can choose to have it on or off as the situation might ask of u to do. Some people are more safety consicrious than other, some are just not gun savvy like most of us, so if they desire a safety, so be it. Better than carrying a fokking rock. Hell all 1911's have a maual safety. gives the owner a couple of ways to carry, his choice. If it is not there, then that choice is lost.

We ain't cops running around in a uniform that might be saying heh look at me I have a gun on me, u can even see it. Most of use carry concealed and for that some like the option of a safety. Like anything else one needs to train with what he is gonna carry. Fro me had they made the PM9 with a manual safety back when I bought mine kand given me the option of a PM9 with no safety or one with a manual safety, I would have bought the one with the safety, just becuase I can now go both ways with it. For me I just don't see a safety as a hindrance. I carry to protect me and my family, my job is not like that of a cop . I think I have an element of surprise over a bad guy for I am merely a civilian in civies, not one with a badge.

Do I like my PM9 with no safety, Yup alot. Especialy in a kahr, I do feel their basic design of looooong trigger travel was to eliminate the manual safety and more than likely if it wa snot for some of these a$$hole states with certain requirement, maybe kahr woul dhave never even intoruced a kahr with a manual safety. Alot of stuff on these guns is there to preventt civil liability etc. Surely u don';t think all this printing sh!t that is put on the guns itslef is something that a gun maker wants to put on his pretty looking gun that now looks like an encyclopedia of safety rules.. Just sayin

[fitpro]

Most people forget that Epinephrine rush that is critically missing in any kind of gun training because no one kicks the **** out of you in training.Best and fastest response ..... one in the pipe and no safety!

^^^As I mentioned in an earlier post, take an ECQC class and you will indeed have one or two guys kicking the sh*t out of you while you try to fight them off and get your weapons into play. Training to that intensity level is not for everyone. It requires a high level of fitness, some H2H skills, and a willingness to bleed during training so that hopefully you will bleed less during an actual violent encounter.

I've taken many gun courses and Krusty is right that most of them DO NOT push you to an adrenal gland rush. However, SIM weapons, good headgear, and an understanding from all participants that "big boy rules" apply gets the ECQC training to about as realistic as it can be without firing live rounds.

My class last May was my first ECQC...I'm looking forward to the next one...and it was unlike any gun or combatives class I have ever taken. As SouthNarc told us during the first five minutes of the 20+ hour class...and he was making this statement to 15 highly-motivated and aggressive good guys..."each of you has some weakness in your warrior skill set and trust me, I will find it." He kept his word and everyone left bloodied, bruised, and better fighters because of it. We learned where and how we needed to improve.

I would encourage anyone to take their training to the most extreme level that they are comfortable doing. (Actually, pushing outside the "comfort zone" is required but everyone needs to understand the risk involved.) Most handgun training is all about punching holes in paper. That has its place in a training regimen but it also has severe limits. There is no penalty in that training for not having a round in the pipe. In real life, there will likely be a terrible penalty if violence pays a visit and the weapon is not ready to fire immediately.

Sorry for the rant...I just want the GGs to be as prepared as possible.

[AIRret]

I always have a round chambered in whatever gun I'm carrying. And all my carry guns do not have safeties! When the SHTF I want consistency. It's a personal decision. Some people carry some guns without safeties and on another day they carry a 1911 locked and loaded. That's their choice, it's just not for me.
Now for ECQC training. I think that's great and there was a time in my life when I would have been very involved in that training. I used to teach wrestling and unarmed combat at the Air Force Academy (since the women were required to take these classed they wanted at least one women trained to teach these co-ed courses). However now I have some disabilities that prevent that (not to say that I can't do anything to physically defend myself). These disabilities actually make carrying a gun even more important!!! I bet Bawwana would agree.

[fitpro]

Now for ECQC training. I think that's great and there was a time in my life when I would have been very involved in that training.

AIRret, believe me, I understand and agree. I'm 48 and due a number of sports-related injuries over the years I am lucky to be able to still train at ECQC intensity and I know the end of that style of training is in sight for me. Most (all but two) of the other participants were roughly half my age.

My point is just that it is really important for us to be as highly-trained as we can be. Situational awareness and a weapon prevent many problems from becoming violent encounters and gives us a big advantage if it does happen. I lived in Central America for a while and being aware of my surroundings and having a weapon saved me from becoming a victim four times. Staying alert may be the single most important skill for any good guy to possess. We all just need to be as trained as we can be. Software (training) combined with hardware (weapon) makes the world a safer place for us.

[AIRret]

Hey fit pro, thanks for the response. I know what you are saying as far as being as prepared as possible. That is SPOT on! And as far as being situationally aware it's a HUGE skill that everyone can improve. I grew up in a very very bad area of Detroit and my survival skills did not leave me when I left there or when I became disabled.

This is an example; (this is from my trip journal) of what could happen while on the road.We continued out of Yakima, WA towards Dalles, OR,. and, of course along and way we had to stop for diesel fuel. Well, this fuel stop did not go smoothly. First, it wasn’t clear which pumps had diesel and there was limited space to maneuver the camper, so I got out of the truck to guided Jim into place. When I was out of the truck I noticed a man wearing a white driving cap talking to a women under a tree. There was also a beat up truck parked at an odd angle nearby ( with a man in the driver seat). So now the stage is set. I get back into the truck and Jim gets out to fuel the truck. While he’s fueling a drunk man comes up and is asking for money and saying that he will clean the windshield. Jim said no thanks, but the guy became very demanding!! At this point I got out of the truck and gave the guy my DETROIT look (assertive confident, but not aggressive) I wanted the guy to know that Jim was not going to stand alone. Well, he backed off, but we noticed some silent communication with the guy under tree. It was like the guy under the tree was running this whole scam. The woman under the tree was also acting strange. She kept going in and out of the gas station. Next, a totally different guy comes up behind me and starts calling me princess. I turned around to face him and then backed up to gain some personal space. This jerk had crazy eyes. We think he was on drugs, which means you don't know what he will do. Eventually, he went over to the tree with the leader and kept saying; come visit us at the casino. Yes, they were all native americans, it was sad (I hate what has happened to a honorable people). Finally, we are able to get into the truck and as we were leaving the cops were pulling in, and the 5 Indians had disappeared.
When I reflect on this I should have taken my cell phone out as if to dial when I had faced the first man (we were armed and not on a reservation) and looked into his eyes. I think it would have been a good intermediate response. If the situation allows (!!!!!) it's better to take small step to defuse a situation.