OH $#!^ - new CM9 barrel?

[hardluk1]

chickenman Glad it looks like only a barrel is damaged. If in stock should be back running hard in just a couple days. You know you will probably end up wih a couple more kahrs before this is all over!!

[jocko]

no

My CM9 (about 3500 rounds) has a bit of up/down movement and sideways movement at the barrel end.
It will move more to the right than it will to the left.
It's difficult to get a caliper lined up in there, but I'd say it looks like it moves maybe .02".

After a squib and a bulged barrel, I'd definitely send it in for Kahr's opinion though.

I'm surprised the plate on the right side of the grip didn't blow out. I'm told that can happen in over-pressure situations. Freaks people out something fierce when that happens.

doubt, he was lucky., If the barrel didn't split, then again he was lucky. Not sure what kind of round it was but had it been a +P round, it might have been a different ending..

[Longitude Zero]

Every squib load or barrel blowup I hae seen/read about/been told about is always reloads which is the direct negligence of the reloader who made the round. I have never seen/heard/read about a squib or barrel popper with factory ammo. Nuff said.

[chickenman]

I called Kahr and spoke to some CS guy. Told him exactly what happend, and told him all I really needed was a barrel. He didn't want to discuss it and said I needed to send it in anyway to let them check it out. I couldn't disagree with the idea so I did. They just called me this morning and said, "You need a new barrel - that'll be $225" A barrel cost $144- which I was perfectly willing to pay. So it cost an extra $100 because I followed their recommendation for them to check it out. Kinda pisses me off but then again, what do you do? The failure was not the guns fault.
So I called him back and said "since Im paying all this extra jack, I want you to address that little polycarbonite tit sticking out of the back of the grip where it interlocks with the slide" He said he'd take care of it.
$225 is half what the gun cost originally. Live and learn..... I will say I am glad it was not an inferior made weopon or the hospital bill might have been much higer. Im also know insurance companies have a very finite value placed on fingers and hands and eyes....etc. -certainly not as much as they are worth to me I'm sure. So for that, I am thankful.

As far as CS is concerned though - looks like Ruger still has my #1 vote.

[aray]

Wow that stinks. I can see charging you for the barrel but unless they disclosed the "let us look at it" part was on the dime, I'd be upset. That seems worth appealing up the Kahr management chain.

[jocko]

I am gonna guess maybe some of thatadditional cost could be return postage... Just sayin

This was a violet explosion, so we don't know what else theymight or not look at either.Ifeel sure they will do some test firing. Not sure kahr would have aksed for it back jsut to ake a few extra bucks either. They probably have enough to take care of. Not defending them, as I guess he could have insisted also to just sell me the fokking barrel . I think he did the right thing. The barreltook the brunt of the mishap but we also just aren't totally sure of what esle ....

[chickenman]

$65 labor, $25 S&H (cost me only $15 to get it to them) Add it all up - $105 above the cost of the barrel at $145 - that's actually $250, not 225 as I stated before....

They are under no obligation to do free labor for something that was not their products fault. I understand that. And Jeff did say they would test fire it.

I also know when a customer purchases a custom made knife from me, I will fix most minor and some major issues, that they most often cause, free of charge. Just the other day I re-sharpened two of my knives a guy purchased 2 years ago and while I had them, I re-polished the blades that he had let corode as well as re-oiled the sheaths that he had let get dry - AND sharpened them - fixing a chip in the end of one of the blades where he used it to turn a screw. Took about an hour. All free of charge. He offered to pay - that was enough. I do that because I know he will speak highly of my knives and might purchase another one or two.

When Jeff called at 0800, he said he had just got it, and would be sending it back today. So I'm sure it took him all of 15 minutes to acertain and repair the gun - really, how long does it take to put a barrel in? That's fine. I knew I should've handled it myself but, like I said, live and learn. I will certainly be more deliberate in my shooting henceforth. And there is some value to the peace of mind that the manufacturer has checked it out to A-OK - whatever that is worth. Apparently it's worth at least $105. ....and this little pain in my back pocket....better than a pain elsewhere I'm sure.

[CJB]

Believe it or not...........

Just got back from the range. Guy next to me shooting reloads asks if I have a rod in my bag (of course I do and a 4 oz. ball peen hammer). He had a squib that did eject the case (he was shooting a Sig) with the bullet just enough in the barrel to almost fully chamber the next round. Slide stopped just about 1/32" of an inch from full lock up. If there was just a little bit more powder, I'll bet the round would have fully chambered.

I sure am glad it didn't.

Yes, got the bullet out and he went back to shooting. Just a little bit slower than before.

I believe you believe it, as it was told to you. I don't believe the facts of the matter are correct, based on physics even Mr. Scott would have to adhere to.

The bullet moving forward about a bullet's length... usually caused by primer only, no powder. If that bullet moved 1/2 inch or so, there was no recoil to speak of, and no energy therefore to cycle the action.

[scosgt]

I had a squib in my Glock 30. It was a Remington factory round 185 JHP from the Rem value pack.
When I fired, there was smoke and a lack of recoil. The empty did not eject. I cleared the gun and there was no round in the barrel. But it was clearly a squib. Best guess is no powder in the round and the primer had enough juice to blow the bullet out of the barrel.

Remington sent me a check for $10 for my trouble.

So yes, a squib round CAN happen in factory ammo.

More common was misfires at my Department range in training. Glock 19 and 26, different brands of ammo. Blazer lead free was preferred (by them not me). We did have relatively common misfires, and once a hangfire that discharged as an instructor clearing the gun, resulting in some very minor hand injury.

We did train with random dummy rounds to simulate jams, and of course that tended to mask the misfires and make hangfires dangerous - since you were expecting to clear a jam it was always a bit of an oops when a live round popped out instead of the dummy.

[CJB]

I had a squib in my Glock 30. It was a Remington factory round 185 JHP from the Rem value pack.
When I fired, there was smoke and a lack of recoil. The empty did not eject. I cleared the gun and there was no round in the barrel. But it was clearly a squib. Best guess is no powder in the round and the primer had enough juice to blow the bullet out of the barrel.

Couple of comments -
First, ty for the affirmation that a bullet can leave the barrel, and not cycle the action, but the reverse is never true. You cannot cycle the action and have a bullet left in the barrel.

Second, probably not primer only. In all my days of loading commercially,
"primer only" would usually knock the bullet just out of the case and into the rifling on auto loaders. On revolvers, the bullets usually got stuck in the forcing cone. You probably had just enough powder to force the bullet out.

On another note - we actually did some testing to see how slow we could get our 45LC's and 44Sp's. We got 'em moving so slow, you could SEE the bullet travel downrange, indoors, in a 50 foot range... and it took powder. Primer only... as I already said... stuck in the forcing cone on revolvers.

[scosgt]

Couple of comments -
First, ty for the affirmation that a bullet can leave the barrel, and not cycle the action, but the reverse is never true. You cannot cycle the action and have a bullet left in the barrel.

Second, probably not primer only. In all my days of loading commercially,
"primer only" would usually knock the bullet just out of the case and into the rifling on auto loaders. On revolvers, the bullets usually got stuck in the forcing cone. You probably had just enough powder to force the bullet out.

On another note - we actually did some testing to see how slow we could get our 45LC's and 44Sp's. We got 'em moving so slow, you could SEE the bullet travel downrange, indoors, in a 50 foot range... and it took powder. Primer only... as I already said... stuck in the forcing cone on revolvers.

Years ago I bought an imported M1 Carbine. Picked it out from the shipping crate at the importer - it was a first month of production Inland.
When I took it apart, the gas piston was shear off -the fat part was in the gas tube or whatever you call it. The skinny part that comes past the nut and hits the op rod was gone. Broken right off. The part that was still there was seized in there, with no way to pull or knock it out.

So, I primed an empty Carbine case. Put in in the chamber, held the muzzle tight against the wall, and pulled the trigger. It blew the frozen part right out of the cylinder!

(Replaced it only to discover that now the gun worked, but the bore was totally shot out. Could not hit paper at 10 feet)!

Anyway, the point is that a primer can pack a pretty good punch.

In the case of my .45, I am also aware that too little powder can cause a detonation, glad that did not happen.

[Bawanna]

Well I have a related story to this thread.

Yesterday afternoon a couple officers were training with a regional swat team. Shooting a Glock 21SF. He fired many rounds and suddenly gun got all tied up.

Another officer drove up and got the gun and decided to try to "fix it" rather than just bring it to me. Two of them were in the back beating on it with a hammer and cleaning rod.

As usual it eventually ended up on my desk with 3rd party information of course.

When I got it the barrel was clear, there was a case in the chamber and the slide was locked solid about an inch back from battery. Would not budge forward or back even with solid blows from a soft face hammer.

I got all the guts out of the slide, extractor, striker, drop safety plunger, still nothing, removed all the pins hoping something would move and allow the slide to move. Still nothing.

Eventually I was able to pop it loose, get the case out and lock the slide back.
Releasing the slide it returned to exactly the same spot as before and locked up solid. Had to hammer to get it back. Lots of head scratching, looking, surprisingly very little foul language.

Well today I decided to change strategy as the barrel was just solid and not able to move at all.
Long story short I was able to drive the barrel back into the slide, it broke loose and I got it all apart.

I found that the barrel had a ring and a slight bulge about an inch from the muzzle. Barrel won't slide through the front of the slide like normal, and you can see the ring and defect in the rifling inside.

Only thing I can figure it he got a bullet stuck almost clear, didn't notice it as they were shooting rapidly and put another round behind it and it had enough steam to drive both bullets out.

Anyhow first I've encountered, the bull in the china closet officer broke the ejector in his beat down. I have several spares so took that one out of service and when we get low on guns I'll order a new barrel, already have the other needed parts on hand.

So that's my story for today. I've tried to tell them that using ammo out of a 5 gallon bucket with water in the bottom isn't a good idea. We've had a few squibs lately, every single one drawn from the bucket. I call that a clue.
Never had one out of the box in 1000's of rounds. Instructor say bad ammo. Speer Lawman, I've shot it myself a lot, no issues.
Oh well.

[fuji1]

This is my first post on the site. I just picked up a new cw40 the other day and like it very much. This post is really a good reminder that things can go bad fast with our sport. I reload and had my first squib in January. A new sw1911! Felt like a fool but the gun didn't cycle and I knew something was wrong, so went home tapped it out and all is fine. Like others posted a revolver could be a different story. So the moral of the story is these things happen and we need to remember they do.

So thanks for the post.

Joe

[jocko]

probably a normal thing for a 45, they go so damn slow anyhow, it is a wonder they make it out the barrel even. I actually seen one at an indoor range go about 3 feet out ofthe gun, hit the ground and then the bullet craweled the rest of the way to tyhe target and made a nice round hole in the bulls eye,and then it crawled back to the shooter and climbed up and went into his shirt pocket almost like it was saying. '"WELL HOW DID I DO BOSS".

True story.


welcome aboard

do read the good sticky's for your new kahr,

[chickenman]

Got my CM9 back yesterday - went out and fired it this morning - slowly

I gathered a little more info on the ammo I was using when the issue erupted. It was supposed to be factory ammo given to me by my father-in-law. Come to find out, it had gotten wet and apparently stayed wet for some time. He found it that way at the range, but he dried it off and then gave it to me. A few of them had fired fine..... I chunked the rest of it after WD-40ing it. "Free ammo" and stupidity cost me $250

anyway - the good folks at Kahr did throw in some "laignappe" for my trouble!