Kahr PM9 Redesign ???

[jocko]

U prove

I can't say I'm too fond of the new look, either. It makes it look like the cheaper CW9 with the beveled front of the slide.

I got my new "factory cut down" PM9 recoil spring. Looks like they cut on 2.5 coils instead of the one the Kahr factory rep said I should do via email. If anyone cares, I can post pics comparing it next to a brand new "new" PM9 recoil spring/guide rod assembly.

MY POINT HERE TO. FACTORY CUT RECOIL SPRING> Now what is the owners of probably over a 100,000 OLD STYLE PM9 going to know what and how to order a set of new recoil springs or recoil rod assembly, as no doubt the recoil assembly and extra springs for the NEW STYLE SLIDE are going to be different. It just makes no fooking sense to this ol timer.

Needless to say it really pisses me off. KAHR, IF IT AN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!!!

[Bawanna]

MY POINT HERE TO. FACTORY CUT RECOIL SPRING> Now what is the owners of probably over a 100,000 OLD STYLE PM9 going to know what and how to order a set of new recoil springs or recoil rod assembly, as no doubt the recoil assembly and extra springs for the NEW STYLE SLIDE are going to be different. It just makes no fooking sense to this ol timer.

Needless to say it really pisses me off. KAHR, IF IT AN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!!!

Jocko, get on your bike and get some wind on your face. Watch out for dairy products, clear your mind. Don't be gone too long.
We'll get thru this. I'm told change that does not kill us makes us stronger. Yeah I know, I did'nt fooking buy it either.

[johnh]

Okay guys, time for a fact injection into this discussion.

First, the failure rates discussed here are completely false. It is important to remember that the PM9 is Kahr's number one selling pistol. You can see that reflected on the forum when you look at the most popular tags. The PM9 is always one of the top two. I know from a very reliable source that the return rate on PM9s has been FAR LOWER than .5%. Not FIVE percent, but point FIVE. That includes any possible returns for any reason, including order issues unrelated to the product. We all know that many guns return to manufacturers that have absolutely nothing wrong with them.

Second, the taper on the nose was added at the request of LEA customers, for better holster compatibility. If you wear a holster a bunch, you will know that even slight tapering on the nose of a pistol greatly helps to smooth insertion into the holster.

Third, to make up for the lost slide mass, the slide (and by necessity the barrel) lengths were increased by .1 inch. Very, very little, but important in keeping the mass the same for reliable cycling.

Fourth, no price increase.

Please do not believe everything you read on gun blogs and forums. This stuff gets circulating and becomes much like the telegraph/phone game my daughter plays in Kindergarten. You know, where they sit in a row and the first person tells the second something, then the second passes it to the third, etc. By the time it gets to the end, the story has very little to do with how it started. I would venture to say sometimes the little kids are better at keeping the facts straight than adults on the Internet.

Hope that helps guys!

John

[Bawanna]

Thanks so much John. As usual you rock! It's nice to get some straight factual injection into some of these discussions.
The .5 return rate is a bit hard to swallow but it is what it is and who am I to dispute that. There's certainly a ton of them out there.
I constantly remind myself that we're sharing opinions usually and not always 100% factual information.
I think the information we share is always meant well but sometimes just like the game you mention a lot gets lost in translation. Little bits of misinformation snowball into huge completely false propaganda.
So nobody take anything I say as fact. Like I told Taxi earlier, I share what I think to be truth. I have zero ego to support and will be the very first to admit when I haven't a clue but am guessing which sadly may be more often than not.

ok bye.

[OldLincoln]

Thanks John, Can we quote your .5 number and some text? Like to be able to say "According to Kahr...". It's not this forum but I'm defending Kahr in other forums also. That's part of why I want to get all the getting started stuff together for easy linking.

What's difficult to defend is customer service. They don't have to give away the store but they can get their facts straight and support their products. It'd hard to have credibility when you say the guns are great but service comes up short.

[Popeye]

I think the redesign of the slide is a non issue. If it makes holstering easier I'm all for it. As far as I'm concerned Kahr makes a darned fine pistol.
As far as the rest of the stuff that goes on the net, smart people and people who have been around can read thorough allot of the false facts and BS that goes on about any brand. I've heard bad stories about the Kel Tec P3at the XD9SC the RIA GI45 the Bersa Thunder .380 and the Kahr PM9. I own everyone of those brands and have found everyone of them to be a very nice reliable pistol in there price range. I guess you can tell I'm not a brand snob by that list. Which leads me to believe that many times it's not the pistol but the person operating the pistol that needs a little working on. JMHO

Thanks John.

[Seahawk60]

First, the failure rates discussed here are completely false.

What discussed "failure rates here"? I didn't seen anything of the sort in this thread. My old PM9 worked fine. I wanted a replacement spring/guide rod assembly. Kahr sent me one that was incorrect and wouldn't work. They sent me another new shorter "cut down" one. End of story.

Second, the taper on the nose was added at the request of LEA customers, for better holster compatibility. If you wear a holster a bunch, you will know that even slight tapering on the nose of a pistol greatly helps to smooth insertion into the holster.

This has been known for a LONG time and incorporated in many other pistol designs. Why the sudden "breaking dawn" on the issue with Kahr? Are they going to change every other pistol as well since this, apparently, is such a *must have* feature all of the sudden?

[Bawanna]

Easy, easy big guy, your getting all overwrought and worked up over nothing. Take off your shoes and walk in the grass barefoot, pick a few dandelions and smell them. It's all perfectly fine and good today. (So far)
Be happy, you talk like them fellas over at Glocktalk all serious and ready to rip each other's throats out.
I'll give ya item 1, I did'nt see no mention of failure rate either but JohnH's information I'm sure is sound, so we didn't lose anything and we gained some.
Given that the people with the .5 failure rate I'm sure are not happy campers. Yours works fine so another happy day for you.
Ease up dude, think positive, you'll live alot longer and maybe not experience road rage everytime you get in a car. (like me).
Item two, if they change em all that's ok, we'll buy or we won't, if they don't change anymore that's ok too, we'll buy or we won't.
It's all good. Repeat after me, it's all good. I like myself, it's all good.
Now I'll just slip on the flak jacket and fire proof suit before I hit the submit button. It's all really good.

[Seahawk60]

Easy, easy big guy, your getting all overwrought and worked up over nothing.

Whatever. They're still valid questions.

[Bawanna]

Wow, thanks man your right. I expected alot worse, a real chewing.
Whenever my wife says "whatever" I usually try to sleep with my head and torso in one of those heavy plastic garbage cans so she can't beat me to death with a baseball bat in my sleep. Safety first ya know.

[Riccardo]

Welcome to the forums!
I haven't heard or read of a new version of the PM9093 being released (other than the MA compliant version).
Here's the contact page for Kahr: Kahr Arms | Contact us ; they should be able to give you a definitive answer.

Personally, I think riccardo is blowing smoke during the entirety of his first and (currently) only post on the forum you linked to.

Regards,
Greg

Ouch. That's mean. I wasn't trying to blow smoke. I'm not even an Illinois resident. I just saw the post after googling 'Kahr PM9' and happened to have first hand knowledge of the redesigned gun. So let me clarify in my first, and hopefully not last post here.

First, I've seen the new PM9 next to the old one. The new one is redesigned. It is slightly longer. I would say about a 1/4 inch, if not a little more. If you folks don't believe me, just take a look at the picture someone else posted on this thread and compare it to a pic of an older Kahr. The tip of the barrel is obviously longer, especially where it juts forward from the polymer frame. I've been told by a 'good' shooter, that there is a little more distance between the front and rear sights, making it a little more accurate.

The new Kahr is MUCH smoother in and out of a draw. The front is beveled, as is the slide stop lever. The old Kahr's slide stop is squared at the rear, where the new one is rounded and angles down into the gun. These improvements mean they are a lot less likely to get snagged in a pocket.

With the new Kahrs, it's noticeably harder to rack back the slide. When you use the slide release to chamber a round, the snap is louder and more positive. It is my opinion (and only an opinion) that this was done to address the ftf problems Kahr's had in the past.

Anyway, just trying to contribute. I think anyone else who has seen them side by side would agree with me.

[Riccardo]

:

Do your own comparison. The differences are MUCH easier to see in person, but you can kind of make out the beveling and increased length in these pics. Look at where the barrel protrudes from the black polymer grip. In person, it is easy to see how much further it sticks out...somewhat visible here. It's tough to see how the barrel slants inward at the end instead of squares off, but it is noticeable.

Note that the front sight sits farther forward on the new model. On the old model, the front sight sits behind the edge of the polymer frame, while on the new one, the front sight extends out in front of the polymer frame...a significant improvement. Also note, which I forgot to mention earlier, that the rear sights are flattened now instead of slightly pointed. Another improvement to make them smoother out of the pocket.

[Riccardo]

New version???Hunn, sure sounds like alot of B. S. to me, wonder what all the "current" issues were that is now resolved also.

someone is pulling your leg stinger.
that tap[ered side has been seen or other model kahrs months and months ago. If there is a new model I would think they would have a new model number,as fas as cosmetic changes, gun companies do that all the time. Some like the tapered look, some also like the other style..

Lets see now, isn't glock on their 3rd generation model but yet same model number??? these companies including gun companies do this stuff all the time...

As Stringer has verified, Kahr themselves have stated that they have made changes to the PM9 for the new October 1st model. And you are incorrect about them changing the model number. Several states have 'approved' lists of guns legal for purchase. Manufacturers will not change model numbers just because they have made improvements or minor re-designs. It would force them to re-enter the approval process to have these 'new' guns on the market. And I think you are wrong to think thease are 'cosmetic' only upgrades. These improvements are significant for a 'pocket' pistol, making it easier to draw without snagging and slightly longer for improved accuracy.

[gb6491]

Riccardo,
Welcome to the forums.
Regards,
Greg

[johnh]

In response to the question about posting .5% elsewhere, I would say you can do that. I posted it here, and the folks at Kahr told me it was fine. I made sure to double-check my info before posting. I also want to stress again that with any gun maker, many guns are returned that are absolutely problem free. The buyer perhaps used poor quality ammo, did not understand how to use the firearm, expected something different than what they got (such as smaller groups), and so forth. You know the old saying, a poor craftsman blames his tools. That applies in to shooters, and we have all seen that happen I suspect.

Also the length increase I posted is correct. I cannot say why a person would perceive it as longer, but remember this is not guess work on Kahr's part. The guns are made on computer controlled milling machines. The increase in length is a precise measurement input into the equipment when the components are produced. So if Kahr says .1 inch, they are not guessing.

John