PM45 jams with NEW recoil spring???

[pappy42]

I don't know what the bs is about counting coils; it's either a coil and you count it or you don't. My old PM45 outer recoil spring had 13 coils. The new recoil spring that Kahr sent me has 15 coils,

With the whole new style recoil assbly; the rod end did indeed stick out the end of the slide on my old style PM45. When Kahr sent the correct old style recoil assbly; it also had a 15 coil outer recoil spring. In MY pistol, the 15 coil spring achieved coil bind before the slide would lock back or before the slide would travel far enough back to chamber a round. The spring had to be cut back to 14 coils (on advice from a CS rep) before slide lock/chambering would take place.

The pistol functions well now and I am reluctant to change anything until we can sort this out. What I suspect is that the Kahr factory personnel have differing ways to achieve function, and that is what is causing confusion amongst us pilgrims.

[pappy42]

I see 16 (new) and 14 (old) using the Jocko count method. Starting at end tip and counting the 2 touching coils as 2.

How did you do that Pappy, you got a new and a old or get a wrong one to compare?

Yep, we have a thread in which I addressed my problem about being sent the incorrect recoil assbly for my PM45.

I took the pictur that I posted here and sent it to CS at Kahr, then they sent me the correct assbly.

The photo that I posted shows the "new style" recoil assbly on the left and the one that I removed from my old style PM45 on the right

[Bawanna]

I don't know what the bs is about counting coils; it's either a coil and you count it or you don't. My old PM45 outer recoil spring had 13 coils. The new recoil spring that Kahr sent me has 15 coils,

With the whole new style recoil assbly; the rod end did indeed stick out the end of the slide on my old style PM45. When Kahr sent the correct old style recoil assbly; it also had a 15 coil outer recoil spring. In MY pistol, the 15 coil spring achieved coil bind before the slide would lock back or before the slide would travel far enough back to chamber a round. The spring had to be cut back to 14 coils (on advice from a CS rep) before slide lock/chambering would take place.

The pistol functions well now and I am reluctant to change anything until we can sort this out. What I suspect is that the Kahr factory personnel have differing ways to achieve function, and that is what is causing confusion amongst us pilgrims.

Semi agreed. My PM45 also has 13 coils by my count. If you count where the first coil goes around and touches the first coil it would be 14 but theres no space between coils so I don't count that one.
We have to determine coils since the spring takes a set after being in the gun for a bit, (I know you know this but others may not). So we can't take it out and set it beside even a new correct spring and compare length as the new one will probably be an inch longer, probably less but certainly longer than one thats been in the gun only a week and never fired.
It seems to me that even with the longer guide rod the spring really wouldn't need to be longer, its only an 1/8". Kahr is saying they are all the same, at least one person said that.
Sooo, thats what we need to determine, you obviously got a new one with more coils and the longer rod for your old style gun so something just ain't adding up here.
I went thru this years ago with Beretta springs. Our overly worrisome instructors were on a kick that we needed to replace all the recoil springs in the Beretta's which I knew had no where near the round count that they recommended for spring replacement. I finally just took a brand new spring, put it in my armorer gun and left it for awhile. Took it out and measured the length and used that to compare officers guns. Some were a full inch shorter than the new spring and still functioned perfectly. Being a don't fix it if it ain't broke guy I did'nt feel the need to replace springs when not needed.

[Bawanna]

Yep, we have a thread in which I addressed my problem about being sent the incorrect recoil assbly for my PM45.

I took the pictur that I posted here and sent it to CS at Kahr, then they sent me the correct assbly.

The photo that I posted shows the "new style" recoil assbly on the left and the one that I removed from my old style PM45 on the right

Yup, I remember that now. My mind seems to be loosening and some of the things I used to remember fall out the cracks from time to time.

[jocko]

don't carehow ojhne conts the photos pappy 42 took definitely show a different amount of coils.
Something is not right that is for sure. I have forwarded this on to kahr to see what kind of b.s. answer I get back. Telling anyone to cut coils off is just not acceptable IMO. sure they might work but that is not how you ordered it either.

[Bawanna]

don't carehow ojhne conts the photos pappy 42 took definitely show a different amount of coils.
Something is not right that is for sure. I have forwarded this on to kahr to see what kind of b.s. answer I get back. Telling anyone to cut coils off is just not acceptable IMO. sure they might work but that is not how you ordered it either.

I hope you took your medications this morning. I hate to see ya get to awful worked up about this. I've seen you on a rampage before and well, your just not yourself. If I get a fish head in the mail I'll know I've angered you.
I'll be sure I have some lemon juice on hand, can't eat fish without lemon juice.

[pappy42]

Yup, I remember that now. My mind seems to be loosening and some of the things I used to remember fall out the cracks from time to time.

What were we talking about? I forgot.

[Bawanna]

What were we talking about? I forgot.

Jocko's medication addictions? Proper way to mail fish heads? Coil spring beds versus water beds?

I plumb forgot too.

[jocko]

have to agree with both of you two. I think I am done with it, as it just seems a no win thing. Sure glad I have an old styple PM9 where I can just go on line and buy just the outter springs in even two different weights from wolffs and not have to pay $24 plus shipping and then crossing my fingers that they send the right one. I knew I bought that PM9 back then for some reason..

[Bawanna]

have to agree with both of you two. I think I am done with it, as it just seems a no win thing. Sure glad I have an old styple PM9 where I can just go on line and buy just the outter springs in even two different weights from wolffs and not have to pay $24 plus shipping and then crossing my fingers that they send the right one. I knew I bought that PM9 back then for some reason..

Well that's a relief. How do the roads look today? Any chance of some 2 wheeler time? That would help huh?

[MikeyKahr]

Original position!!

Good afternoon. Thank you for the reply email I have personally taken two (old and new style) recoil assemblies out and compared them. They are the exact same coil count. I am unsure as to how or why people have received recoil assemblies with varying coil counts but I can tell you that the old and new style have the same counts.

Good afternoon. I have counted both new and old and they are 14 coils.

Looking at pappy42's picture and all things considered, I stand by my original position, which is it is utterly ridiculous to need to have all of these conversations just to get a simple correct answer about something as simple as the number of coils on a recoil spring. This should be a 15 seconds question and answer (and I only said 15 seconds to justify an explanation on how one counts the closed end of the spring, be it counted as one or two coils) - and the answer should be correct!!!

There is definitely something to get to the bottom to on this topic (thanks for trying doing so, jocko) as this is clear as mud. The only thing that would make sense to me would be if Kahr CS sent pappy42 a completely wrong spring not intended for the PM45 at all - is that possible? Oh well, I'm with jocko - I'm glad I got the old style PM9 when I did and I'm glad I know where to go for a good "non-overpriced" deal on two different pound springs.

[jocko]

whenI am on the bike I sure in hell don't worry about kahrs. Milk shake trails are another thing though... Itis bitter cold here today..

[Southern Guy]

Just to update

I got my new recoil spring in yesterday. I installed it today and the slide wouldn't lock back, the spring does have a extra coil on it, probably about a coil and a half. So I called KAHR and they told me to try to put an empty mag in it and see if the slide would lock back that way. I don't really know what that was suppose to accomplish but I complied. Not to my surprise the slide didn't lock, so I called back and they told me clip half a round at a time until it "works." Also told me "it should take no more than 2 rounds."

That is ridiculous, hopefully I can avoid having to deal with them in the future. I love my PM45 and would gladly recommend one to anybody, but I would also have to tell them about this type of bs from them. I can't even get a correct recoil spring from the manufacturer. It is unacceptable cs imo....

Anyway, through with the update and rant.

[CJB]

To devils advocate for a second...

Suppose you were a gun manufacturer. And suppose you did have some variation from lot to lot in the exact positioning of say... the ledge where the recoil spring fits in the slide. Maybe it didn't seem like much when you were making slides, but then you decided to max out the springs. Well.... thats doable in a factory setting, but what about replacements? In that case you'd have to supply a long spring, and it would need to be fit. Supplied long, it would cover a worst case scenario.

If they had a little note in there that said "Due to manufacturing variations, this spring is supplied purposefully long... (blah blah blah)....cutting no more than two coils until the proper fit is established", then you'd probably not be as upset.

Just my 2c on it.

[jocko]

cjb; CAN U NAME ME one gun maker that sends springs to long and then tells you to cut them back until they work. Just one please and then I will shut up.. If that be the case, why would wolffs make literally thousands of different recoil springs for all the guns they list. Why not make one spring only make it 3 feet long and then one can order it and cut off what HE thinks will work, if it is to long, then just trim some, if it is cut to short, then pitch it and u still have 2.5 feet of new recoil spring to trial and error.

It makes zero sense and for a kahr tech person to tell an ower that is just so far out of whack I can't believe it.. Not trying to be a smart-ass here but I have sold guns for over 40 years and I can't remember ever ordering a part from a gun maker for their guns and having a note in there to modify it.

I hope I don't need a new slide stop for my PM9 for fear kahr will just send me a 2" BLOCK of steel with a note to carve it myself!!