A quick video of my success incorporating Greg's follower Mod/Update video added

[Replay13]

Got a free 7 round mag yesterday. Made a quick video of the mag performing with it's original/stock follower versus the modified follower from the previous video in this thread.

http://youtu.be/WYlA4BouR-g

Nice video Jim,

I was thinking of trying something like that with my 7 round mag that sometimes had nose dive jams (my 6 round mag runs good). But I don't have my 7 round mag anymore, mailed it back to Kahr today for exchange on another 6 round mag. I want to add that I was impressed on how fast Jay at Kahr answered my email!

Anyways thanks for all the info and the videos. I do have one question... I see it feeds super slick hand racking the slide, now I am curious about how many rounds have you fired through your pistol with the modified follower?

Thanks again, very interesting post!
James
p.s. one more question... how do you get free mags??

[TucsonMTB]

The follower mod in my video is for a CM9. Your video indicates you have a PM40, hence I doubt there can be any valid post mod comparisons between the two handguns. Additionally, the follower mod is designed to prevent nose diving which does not seem to be the case in your video.

You may be onto something there. I have a couple of PM40s and have found that a little more aggressive version of Greg's modification works well for me.

In addition to sanding the added clearance for the magazine catch in the side of the follower to prevent any second round nose dives while shooting, take a look at the pictures below to see the changes I make to the top of the followers. To help illustrate the results, you can see the dimensions of a new (virgin) and a modified follower.

Remember that the purpose of that modification is to put added pressure on the front of the round.


Side view showing the increased nose up angle after sanding (near follower) compared to the virgin follower behind it.


Notice that I take quite a bit more material off than Greg showed in his pictures.


The new (virgin) follower is about 0.64 inches tall in the rear before sanding.


After sanding, the rear of the modified follower is down to less than 0.52" tall.

Sanding is a bit of a misnomer. I use a large round file first and then wrap sandpaper around it for a smoother finish. The last sanding is usually done with 1500 grit wet-or-dry paper.


This three quarter view tries to show how much greater the support of the cartridge is in the front of the modified follower on the right.

In my experience, pushing up on the front of the cartridge forces the top cartridge firmly up against lips at the top of the magazine giving your best chance of trouble free feeding.

As always this is just how I did it and what works for me. YMMV.

[jimsea]

Can't speak for the PM40 because I don't own one. However, if nose diving is an issue then increasing the rake angle of the rounds in the mag tube may remedy the issue.

My CM9 has worked flawlessly out of the box. Thus far I have shot just over 500 of a variety of rounds. I recognized early on two issues. One, the mag did not drop free and two, hand racking the first round other than an aggressive sling shot or slide stop release resulted in a nose dive jam under the ramp.

Regarding these two issues, reading this forum provided guidance and simple remedies to resolve both issues. A simple squeeze to the upper front of the mag tube in a vice, to bring it within specs, and 15 minutes or so of sanding the follower to increase the rake angle of the rounds in the mag tube have "improved" a handgun that otherwise worked as designed by Kahr. No other modifications have been performed on the handgun.

[jimsea]

TMTB's pics prodded me to do some of my own for comparison.

Just a reminder that his pics refer to the PM40.......and mine to the CM9.


First pic is a round resting on a modified Kahr follower staged in front of a virgin Kahr follower.

Second pic is the round presentation in the 6 rnd mag tube with the modified Kahr follower, and finally the third pic is the round presentation in the same mag tube with the virgin Kahr follower. Quite a bit of difference and you can see why the nose diving is eliminated by this simple modification.

[frbejarano]

Why will Kahr not do this themselves? Some one should make them aware of this! Sorry......I'm sure the suggestion has been made.

[frbejarano]

Can this be done with the P380? Mine won't feed pdx1 ammo with out nosediving and getting hung up on the feed ramp.

[jimsea]

Can this be done with the P380?

Don't have a P380 but will say that followers are a fairly cheap item to replace if you don't get the desired results.

[DJK11]

A follower for a Ruger LCP drops into a P380 mag. Might give a try.

[TucsonMTB]

A follower for a Ruger LCP drops into a P380 mag. Might give a try.

Yeah, and if you have any Kel-Tec P-3AT mags around, try that follower.

Early on, the LCP mags used the same follower as the Kel-Tec (same mag manufacturer, BTW). When they switched to their own design, they experienced interferrence with the magazine catch, similar to the Kahr second round nose dive issues. Sanding the newer LCP follower or dropping in a Kel-Tec follower (which had noticeably more clearance for the the catch) was the answer.

[rogerthedodger]

Can this be done with the P380? Mine won't feed pdx1 ammo with out nosediving and getting hung up on the feed ramp.

I am wondering the same thing, my P380 wont feed flat nose WWB because the 2nd round hangs on the feed ramp(and dents the end of the bullet).
frbejarano, if you try it, let us know the results on your P380.

[WilliamG]

I'd like to chime in, and say that while the video is very interesting showing how "easy" it is to load each Gold Dot round with the modified follower, loading any round that way is definitely considered a failure to feed, and I certainly wouldn't trust my life to a chamber like that...

Now I personally have not had a failure to feed of any sort if loaded correctly, and I use Gold Dots in practice a lot, since it's my carry round. Absolutely I can get the round hung up if I just gently pull back the slide and let it move forward like in the above videos. However, under normal loading circumstances, via slingshot or slide-release, rounds load with no trouble. I've even tried pushing the top round on a full magazine down a little, so it's actually pointing almost horizontally in the magazine, and it still loads just fine.

So, something is definitely going on with the magazines or the guns to cause some people to have catastrophic nosediving with Gold Dots. That said, I've no idea what the problem is.

[jimsea]

.............under normal loading circumstances, via slingshot or slide-release, rounds load with no trouble.

...............and indeed those two methods of chambering the first round are as designed by Kahr and subsequently outlined in the operator's manual.

The purpose of the modified follower is to add even greater functionality by adding a "third" method for chambering the first round. Chambering a round slowly takes nothing away from the aggressive slingshot or slide-release method.

[TucsonMTB]

So, something is definitely going on with the magazines or the guns to cause some people to have catastrophic nosediving with Gold Dots. That said, I've no idea what the problem is.

I'm guessing Kahr is similarly mystified, possibly because a small enough percentage of their pistols exhibit this behavior.

Of course, being part of a small percentage is no real comfort if your Kahr happens to be one of the guns that is reluctant to feed.

Fortunately, a little follower sanding can help. Guns from every manufacturer seem to have individual personalities. The may be a little like people. Most of us don't entirely warm up to everyone we meet on the street.

[WilliamG]

This is fair enough. Be easier to troubleshoot if you had a PM9 that feeds reliably vs one that doesn't. What does Kahr do/say when you send in an unreliable firearm for this issue?

[kahrcrazy13]

sorry if this question seems stupid! i just recently got my first kahr tp 45 i need to do the same to my mag . but I'm scared I'm going to mess my clip up and there so exspensive ! but here is my question when you have some free time or if u have a mag u havnt sanded yet can you please sand one while making a youtube video and post so i know what I'm doing and how far i should sand so i don't mess up my mag ? i know i seem slow but I'm one of them people who learn by watching someone eles do it i need a mental picture lol