"No Concealed Firearms" sign on the door.

[Planedude]

Well chrish, I do respect the property owners rights. In Texas there is a plain language law and a simple method to place it in action under the law. Do that and I will resect and comply your wishes, or go elsewhere. If a property owner is too frigging lazy to post correctly under the law then I'm going to be too lazy to turn around at his door, just to walk my EDC back out to my car...
Always seemed fair to me.
Again, though, if my firearm was somehow spotted and I was asked to leave, I would without complaint. I have never and will never cross a properly posted 30.06 notice, ever!

Legal signage first, second (cut and pasted from the DPS site) "This is an example of a “gunbuster” sign. It does not conform to the requirements of Texas statutes and therefore has no legal force." It is as easy to do it right as to do it wrong.

[chrish]

Well chrish, I do respect the property owners rights.

I don't think I suggested you or anyone else didn't. I agree completely if it isn't posted. But I don't agree that the property owner should have to comply with some silly law about format...unless they press the issue w/ you after you walk in and are deemed in violation of their posting. If the sign carries the force of law and you are charged w/ tresspassing, then they should have followed the letter of the law (i.e. format matters when the law is behind it because they could have posted it in 6 point font on the side of the building, not the door, where nobody ever sees it).

But if common sense prevails and they have a clear sign, it's my opinion that it should be respected. Enforceable by law or not.

Some states are not that specific and all that is required is a sign or a verbal request, then you must leave or do something w/ your firearm or you are in violation of tresspassing laws and can be charged if the owner chooses to do so. Some states, a sign doesn't carry force of law (for the reason/scenario I described above) even for tresspassing, but a verbal request does. My point was that when posted, when asked, whatever your state law requires of the anti-gun person/business, I respect that.

Please don't take offense, just making a point. It wasn't meant to be accusatory.

If both of the signs you posted were on the door, I would respect both out of common courtesy.

[Bawanna]

I agree with chrish on this last post. This is one of the areas where we'd be better off without fine print lawyers.

I always figure a mans/womans business is just like their home. If they don't want you in their business that should be it right there. Regardless of signs.
This is a little harder to grasp with big box corporations where nobody in the store is an owner, just a manager or whatever.

Many restaurants used to post signs that we reserved the right to refuse service to anyone. To me you don't need a sign even, if a dirt bag who gives me a the heeby jeebies along with my other customers in MY restaurant then I should be able to 86 him/her. Don't need government or the police to impose actions I need to take to send them packing.

I usually don't look to hard for a no guns sign and go on about my business. If asked to leave I'll leave, with or without a gun.

It's sort of like a law that says you have to hold your mouth just right and say a certain phrase (recorded for legal safety) before you shoot the bad guy assaulting your wife in your house at 2am.

The world would be a much better place without fine print.

I'm gonna need a freaking parachute to get off this soap box, an me scared of heights too.

Geronimo!

[Barth]

I used to take by business elsewhere.
But eventually I just started ignoring the signs.
Seems like its mostly C.Y.A. and deals with the possibility of dealing with idiots.
Be civil, respectful, careful and it's really a non-issue.

Fortunately, here in Tampa, people have some level of common sense.
If there is a silver lining to the Movie Massacre,
It's that a "No Weapons" sign saved no one.
And may have even allowed additional carnage.
The few signs I've seen seem to have been taken down here in Tampa.
Haven't seen one in a while.
Particularly at the local movie theaters.

People are starting to think this through...

[jocko]

try

I agree with chrish on this last post. This is one of the areas where we'd be better off without fine print lawyers.

I always figure a mans/womans business is just like their home. If they don't want you in their business that should be it right there. Regardless of signs.
This is a little harder to grasp with big box corporations where nobody in the store is an owner, just a manager or whatever.

Many restaurants used to post signs that we reserved the right to refuse service to anyone. To me you don't need a sign even, if a dirt bag who gives me a the heeby jeebies along with my other customers in MY restaurant then I should be able to 86 him/her. Don't need government or the police to impose actions I need to take to send them packing.

I usually don't look to hard for a no guns sign and go on about my business. If asked to leave I'll leave, with or without a gun.

It's sort of like a law that says you have to hold your mouth just right and say a certain phrase (recorded for legal safety) before you shoot the bad guy assaulting your wife in your house at 2am.

The world would be a much better place without fine print.

I'm gonna need a freaking parachute to get off this soap box, an me scared of heights too.

Geronimo!

jumping without the parachute. They say it opens up a whole new world for you. LIKE Heaven or hell. Just sayin

[Bawanna]

jumping without the parachute. They say it opens up a whole new world for you. LIKE Heaven or hell. Just sayin

Never a tall bridge around when I need one. One close by but probably not tall enough, probably just break my neck and then I'd be a derelict.

Heck I already are one.

[Planedude]

.

Please don't take offense, just making a point. It wasn't meant to be accusatory.

If both of the signs you posted were on the door, I would respect both out of common courtesy.

No offense taken here at all. Its a tough point to mess with. Some corparate office in the great northeast sends down a sign and cuts us off from our rights because the big bucks lawyer says "eh... why not". I just feel that if it mattered to them, alot, They could do it in the correct lawful fashion. I would never make it a big deal if asked to leave. I carry to defend myself from thugs, not to make any political statement. I do figure if the thugs come calling on the "gun free zone" while I'm there, well heck of a shock for them. I'm not trying to be beligerent, I'm just too old and gimpy to walk across the parking lot twice over a sign that has no legal merit.

[chrish]

jumping without the parachute. They say it opens up a whole new world for you. LIKE Heaven or hell. Just sayin

true true ... but i can't exactly do that in places i frequent. and for the record, i am more of an 'easier to ask forgiveness than permission' type of guy. but MOST of my situations are not a 'take my business elsewhere' situation, it's a scenario where if i go carrying into those places (contractor status), it's a 'one strike and you loose the ability to work here'. but that's a totally different (IMO) situation than what we are talking about here, place of employment/work vs doing business w/ anti-gun companies.

either way, i respect the signs for now. if things descent to the point that i'm VERY concerned for my safety between the door and car or car and home...i may opt to jump w/o a parachute. everything is relative in this world. other than these few situations in my life, i carry the rest of the time. hopefully you guys won't read about me in the paper when some thug gets me coming out of a gun-ban client site at some point.

@Planedude, can't much argue w/ that. This thread is a good one, has me thinking. Where I'm at, no sign carries the force of law, so technically, by the letter of the law I can carry anywhere that's not already specifically prohibited (schools, courts, etc). If someone has a sign and I go in open or concealed+discovered, they have to ask me to leave first...only at my refusal can they call the cops and charge tresspassing. But it DOES give me pause to think that maybe I should just go w/ your theory and do it anyway and deal w/ it when/if it comes up.

[titus1971]

I usually respect these signs (being the law abiding citizen that I am) but I try to use it as an opportunity to educate people as well. There’s a local place I do business with (not a bank) and they have a no CC sign. As I was waiting for the MGR to complete my transaction one day I mentioned the sign. She sat up in her chair nice and straight and smiled and said "yes, it's because we have lots of cash on hand sometimes". I politely explained to her that I'm a CCP holder and I left my firearm in the vehicle and then I asked her. "If someone was intending to commit armed robbery here do you think they would see your sign and leave their weapons outside? All that sign does is prevent licensed legally carrying people from carrying a firearm in here". You could see her wheels start to turn, she literally never had considered that a sticker on a door probably wouldn’t prevent a determined criminal. Not that having a CCP holder would automatically prevent a potential crime but you have a dang better chance than if no one is armed but the bad guys. Just my two cents

[tv_racin_fan]

I generally consider their reasoning for the sign and go from thereon a case by case basis. One LGS has the sign another one doesn't owned by the same people, the range we use both indoor and outdoor have the sign. Those cases are generally a safety thing. One LGS I may carry openly the other it stays in my pocket. IF I am open carrying I avoid those places with a sign or leave it in the car/ask the wife to carry it in her purse.

When we went to visit my mother she informed me that the place she lives doesn't allow firearms (church "campground"). I told her that was fine we would stay in the hotel down the street. She said well just keep it hidden then.. an aunt who has a place there is pro gun, I asked her about their safety if no one had a firearm and she informed me that about half the residents have firearms including her.

[jlottmc]

No offense taken here at all. Its a tough point to mess with. Some corparate office in the great northeast sends down a sign and cuts us off from our rights because the big bucks lawyer says "eh... why not". I just feel that if it mattered to them, alot, They could do it in the correct lawful fashion. I would never make it a big deal if asked to leave. I carry to defend myself from thugs, not to make any political statement. I do figure if the thugs come calling on the "gun free zone" while I'm there, well heck of a shock for them. I'm not trying to be beligerent, I'm just too old and gimpy to walk across the parking lot twice over a sign that has no legal merit.

It's funny you mention proper posting. That includes entrances, all of them. Grapevine mills mall's property manager (who is supposedly very pro-gun) was told by the owner of the property that he had to post signs, and legal ones at that. So the property manager did post one, on one entrance (I think it's near the Rain Forest Cafe). That's the story I heard anyhow, and in the one time I went there, I didn't see anything posted. I know that section addresses this.

[jocko]

Probably would be alot less people getting fired if management had to call in BIG BAD TURK off the military tank assembly line and he walks in the super's office with his G19 strapped to his side chewing some SKOAL. and it's running down his chin... NOw would u want to say TURK,,UR FIRED or would u maybe say. TURK,HOW IS UR DAY GOIN. Just sayin.

I would never risk my job over bucking policy and sneakng in with my gun. Ur friends if they even smelled u carried would rat u out and maybe upper management was thinking ur a excellent employee but now they are faced with a major policy violation. I like u guys would not like their policy but I don't make the rules in your house either....

[Bawanna]

I kind of figure I was looking for this job when I found it, I'll be looking for a job when I find the next one.

I've never had a problem finding a job, nothing is beneath me, I have no large goals except to own 1 copy of every gun ever made. That's perhaps a bit lofty but I peck away at it.

I just have a hard time tolerating stupid policies dreamed up by some cover 6 college grad that doesn't have a clue in real life. Beside I'm entitled right, Obummer will take care of me.

[jocko]

take the liability lawyers out of the picture and more than likely we would not even be discussng this sh!t. I don't say shoot um all,(that would be espensive and bloody) but one could tie a 5000 pound weight to the first one and then tie all the other lawyers in succession and drop uno numo off the golden gate bridge. Now tell me would that be a sight or would that be a sight. Hell I'm just sayin.

[40cw]

Well said.