Setback -- I'm convinced

[Bawanna]

Not really related to set back but certainly firearm safety and the wisdom of double checking prior to dry fire or anything else where you want an empty gun.
We had officer annual quals today. As I usually do I went to clean the detective sgts guns, she carries a Glock 30 daily but also has a 21 for uniform carry. Kind of a trade off, I get to see her in camo so I clean her guns in return.

First I cleaned her little 30 as that is her primary in case she left the building etc.
Then I went back and got the 21. Took it out of the holster and as is my usual practice around here especially with Glocks I locked the slide back.
For the 4th time now she left a round chambered, no magazine, thinking the gun was empty!
She watched me lock it back and like a magician show the round in my hand.
She was deeply apologetic but I told her in this case sorry doesn't get it. The next time she'd be getting a spanking, camo outfit or not and we both would enjoy it.

Check those chambers boy and girls.

Probably have to clean the brass's guns now, they actually went up today too like they are suppose to. Very rare.

At least it beats driving a stupid computer all day long.

[SlowBurn]

Carry an unloaded gun? He must live in one of the better neighborhoods. Gun Safety is a state of mind. If you want to carry with an empty chamber I don't mind.

Muggsy, you're an exceptionally experienced handgunner. But not everyone is. Doesn't mean we're wrong to carry with empty chamber. It's a trade off I choose for the extra margin of safety. I understand the argument against it, the training demos, etc. But I've yet to come across a real life civilian incident where taking the time to rack the slide actually made a critical difference. I assume its happened, but I believe its more rare, at least for the average citizen who carries like me, than injury from an accidental or negligent discharge. So its a compromise I choose.

Check out the video in this recent news story. This well trained ex marine racked his slide in the confrontation (he called it cocking the gun.) He doesn't feel he's carrying an "unloaded" gun. Neither do I.

Idaho man says concealed weapon saved his life

[DavidS]

Muggsy, you're an exceptionally experienced handgunner. But not everyone is. Doesn't mean we're wrong to carry with empty chamber. It's a trade off I choose for the extra margin of safety. I understand the argument against it, the training demos, etc. But I've yet to come across a real life civilian incident where taking the time to rack the slide actually made a critical difference. I assume its happened, but I believe its more rare, at least for the average citizen who carries like me, than injury from an accidental or negligent discharge. So its a compromise I choose.

Check out the video in this recent news story. This well trained ex marine racked his slide in the confrontation (he called it cocking the gun.) He doesn't feel he's carrying an "unloaded" gun. Neither do I.

Idaho man says concealed weapon saved his life

Well said.
There are many experts on this forum. I am not one of them and appreciate the advice given to us less experienced. Often they will chip in with suggestions for the less experienced that the recipient of the advice can either accept or reject. These suggestions come with good intentions but sometimes they are worded so that they make the recipient feel like they are being talked down to. I know that is not the intent in most cases and try to look at the suggestion, not how it is presented.
Sometimes I agree with the advice and adopt it, sometimes not because of my personal circumstances and perferences. In those cases, I figure carrying differently than suggested is probably better than not carrying at all.

[DavidS]

As for Muggsy, he's pretty much ok with a sense of humor that is a little sideways. Now, if you want to get to know him better, I know of a little hot button you can press and .....
(Oops, he might be listening. Never mind.)

[knkali]

I have read everything that Mugs posted on setback in a thread long ago and have come to the same conclusion he did---pistols will be OK IF the round feeds properly. I do check my rounds and use the setback rounds for range fodder. So far no problems. I get rid of them for the worry of FTF not catastrophic gun failure.


The Israeli military police carry in condition 3. They train to draw and rack in one smooth motion. When they do draw/rack it is very smooth and fast BUT they train for that. I am not sure if they still carry cond 3 or not now. I understand why they do it too due to the nature of their environment. However, if you have ever been in a situation where you have had to go for your gun, you would never go with an empty chamber again. I guess you can use it as a weight to hit the BG with it though. I don't get it but to each his own...peace out

[DT Guy]

How do you think this would have worked out if he'd had to rack his gun before using it?

My guess is he'd be dead.


Larry

[Ikeo74]

Deonta was just turning his life around. He just got out of church choir practice. That Officer didn't need to kill him. He was such a nice boy.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02/...t-gas-station/

[Barth]

IMHO re-clambering any round over and over is a bad thing.
I never do that.
357 Sig, in my experience, has been particularly susceptible to set back.
My recommendation is to check your carry ammo.
And don't re-chamber the same round in any caliber.

[muggsy]

Muggs
Testing one gun with one type of ammo doesn't present a definite conclusion about all semi autos and all ammo.

All reloading books caution about making sure that the ammo you make has at least a certain length for the amount of powder used.

I had to cringe when he said that he tapped the chambers closed with a hammer. just asking for an out of battery discharge.

Similar tests were done by the NRA years ago with similar results. The length found in most reloading manuals is the maximum OAL. It's published to insure the the rounds aren't too long for the magazine or cylinder. I have never seen a minimum length published for a pistol cartridge in any reloading manual.

[muggsy]

Muggsy, you're an exceptionally experienced handgunner. But not everyone is. Doesn't mean we're wrong to carry with empty chamber. It's a trade off I choose for the extra margin of safety. I understand the argument against it, the training demos, etc. But I've yet to come across a real life civilian incident where taking the time to rack the slide actually made a critical difference. I assume its happened, but I believe its more rare, at least for the average citizen who carries like me, than injury from an accidental or negligent discharge. So its a compromise I choose.

Check out the video in this recent news story. This well trained ex marine racked his slide in the confrontation (he called it cocking the gun.) He doesn't feel he's carrying an "unloaded" gun. Neither do I.

Idaho man says concealed weapon saved his life

SlowBurn, you are free to do as you like, but carrying a gun with the chamber empty can get you killed. First you don't often have time to chamber a round in a SHTF situation. Second, if you do have time you are taking a chance that your gun might jamb. Finally, Kahr pistols were designed to be carried safely with a round in the chamber. Along with the long trigger pull the gun several internal passive mechanical safeties. The gun will not fire if dropped, it will not fire if it's out of battery and it will not fire unless the trigger is fully depressed. Not chambering a round cuts you guns capacity by one round. That may just be the round that saves your life. Would you carry a double action revolver with one empty chamber? The best gun safety is the one that God put between your ears. Follow the safe gun handling rules and you'll have no accidental or negligent gun discharges.

[knkali]

sing out brother Muggs. ...and the Truth shall set you free.

[muggsy]

As for Muggsy, he's pretty much ok with a sense of humor that is a little sideways. Now, if you want to get to know him better, I know of a little hot button you can press and .....
(Oops, he might be listening. Never mind.)

I'm listening, but to be honest I have no hot buttons. I learned long ago never to argue with a fool. What others do or don't do is no concern of mine unless what they do or don't do directly involves me. I offer my best well thought out advice. It's yours to accept or reject. Care not I. There is not one self-defense instructor that I know of that advocates carrying a gun with an empty chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMbIC0RPBRs

[h2ohhh]

Re: Setback -- I'm convinced

I'm listening, but to be honest I have no hot buttons. I learned long ago never to argue with a fool. What others do or don't do is no concern of mine unless what they do or don't do directly involves me. I offer my best well thought out advice. It's yours to accept or reject. Care not I. There is not one self-defense instructor that I know of that advocates carrying a gun with an empty chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMbIC0RPBRs

I've got a few nice SA/DA guns that I enjoy shooting but only carry a striker fired DAO on my person or as my truck gun (a Kahr and a Smith) with one in the chamber. I don't consider myself an expert with a pistol nor am I a combat vet or LEO. I don't want to have to think about racking, safeties or anything else in a SHTF situation. And I don't worry about accidental discharge with these type weapons securely holstered with the trigger covered.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[knkali]

i've got a few nice sa/da guns that i enjoy shooting but only carry a striker fired dao on my person or as my truck gun (a kahr and a smith) with one in the chamber. I don't consider myself an expert with a pistol nor am i a combat vet or leo. I don't want to have to think about racking, safeties or anything else in a shtf situation. And i don't worry about accidental discharge with these type weapons securely holstered with the trigger covered.

Sent from my nexus 7 using tapatalk

yep

[DavidS]

I am quite comfortable carrying a chamber loaded Kahr when I am out and about. When I am running around the property and home, I carry a Glock 23 OWB. But, I am not comfortable carrying it with a round in the chamber but I have not sorted out exactly why, something about the trigger pull.
Some comments from the experts would be appreciated, am I paranoid or is my concern justified?