no licence to conceal carry? thoughts/opinions welcome

[tv_racin_fan]

Off into pariah land I be goin' now....

Back in the day, like when we all usta take our .22's to school, store them in our lockers, and then go out shooting in the woods and fields I would have thought a license to carry with a training prerequisite rather bizarre. T'wer any license to be required at all.

I could write couple of chronological paragraphs wrt "over the years" but will just skip to today.

I'm now against constitutional carry, at least in most areas. Concealed carry should licensed. And issue of a permit should be contingent upon some demonstration of understanding of and competence with a firearm. Our world has changed, there are too many freaks, and too many "duh" incompetents out there now.

The DL requirement comparison is a good one.

How many of those supposedly trained and competent drives have accidents every day in the US? How many drivers are on the road right this minute who have no permit and no training but drive anyway?

The very idea that we give up freedom and liberty and allow the govt to mandate a permit and training to defend ourselves is not in keeping with the principles that this nation was founded upon. Doing so will result in the need of training and a permit to exercise those other rights within that Bill of Rights.

Papers, please.

[Gene Hackman]

It's still good to have one. Especially if you travel. I live in Colorado and our permits are good in a whole bunch of states. Plus if you ever have to tell police you have a gun (I don't offer that information) they will take you more seriously and not think you're just a thug with a gun.

[RRP]

I live in Colorado and our permits are good in a whole bunch of states. Plus if you ever have to tell police you have a gun (I don't offer that information) they will take you more seriously and not think you're just a thug with a gun.

Be careful with that. In CO, there is no duty to "inform". However, in many of the states where you have reciprocity, there is indeed a duty to inform.

[berettabone]

You should not only have to show competence shooting your firearm, but be able to assemble/disassemble/clean your firearm. You wouldn't believe how many shooters I have seen(mostly women) who don't know the first thing about their firearm, and they have their husband clean it. You shoot it, you clean it.

[marcinstl]

I probably shoot to much, I'm at the range maybe twice a week or more. if I had the energy and a video camera I could have a youtube channel, just range videos. funny, scarey, sad, hot brass in the cleavage, shotgun punishment, slide and hammer bites, even some good shooters. I have concluded that guns are not for everybody. even in war, up to 20% of casualties can be from "friendly fire", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fire_incidents you see stories like the cop and bad guy shoot out in the elevator, 11 shots fired and nobody was hit--- WTF!? here's a knee slapper-- it's 3am and Joe6Pack (with wife and kids) wakes up to noise of somebody breaking in. half asleep, all he has to do is put the right code into the digital gun safe on the night stand, get the gun out and load it, then he's ready.
I fault the ever greedy gun and ammo companies for over marketing and over selling product to under educated buyers.
I live in Mo. and have a CCW permit. no reciprocity in Illinois. that's ok, I don't go there, it's way to dangerous.

[rickbsgu]

The problem I have with concealed carry permit is this: How do you enforce it?

If the weapon is concealed, then no one knows it's on the person (concealed is concealed - for the case of the argument, I'm assuming full concealment is successful.) If it becomes unconcealed, it's either an accident, or it had to be used.

If an accident, the permit offers no protection. In fact, it becomes a liability. Whether the carrier has it or not, they're faced with prosecution. If lucky, it's a misdemeanor. If in the wrong state, it can be a full on felony, with or without a permit (at least that seems to be changing.) In any case, they now will lose otherwise productive time dragging through the legal process.

So, what good does the permitting process accomplish in terms of day to day enforcement? Seems like a ruse, to me, and just a 'feel good' measure to appease the anti's/another way to appear to exert control over something for which there is no real control/get lists of people and drive more bureaucracy/extract funds from people. (If it were inherently enforceable, criminals wouldn't be able to conceal - which they obviously do on a regular basis.)



If it had to be used (and all the criteria for self defense and justifiable shooting is met), it puts the judicial system in the uncomfortable position of prosecuting someone who was just defending themselves for not having the state's blessing for doing so. Think about Boernie Getz, New York Subway shooting of 1984. Convicted of carrying only, all other charges were dropped. So, ultimately, he was convicted of not obtaining the state's blessing to defend himself - a blessing that is almost impossible to get, and for which he would have been victimized had he not chosen to ignore it. The absurdity wasn't lost on the public - it sparked a national firestorm of commentary and analysis.

And here's the crux: the state couldn't have determined beforehand whether he had done that, and couldn't detect it. Back to enforceability. Concealed is concealed, with or without a permit.

Arizona woke up to the reality. I'd like to see other states do it, too.

[max it]

hi ya Scott,
agreed. I am preparing to take the course more for the extra training
than for the legal right to carry concealed.
bravo, Max

[ScottM]

hi ya Scott,
agreed. I am preparing to take the course more for the extra training
than for the legal right to carry concealed.
bravo, Max

Hope you have as much as I'm having! Being able to practice full draws, conduct movement drills and play with different scenarios under seasoned instruction is frankly confidence-inspiring.

[pwilson]

as a part time bank teller and part time stay at home dad... i wish the courses were cheaper.. lol

maybe ill see if my friend could give me a course on one of my days off.. oh wait.. i dont have those.. lol

[ltxi]

As clarification and/or fwiw....I didn't say/mean new training should be required, tho it could especially legal info be useful. What I today advocate is demonstration of competence with a firearm...military, LE, whatever background be quite sufficient to satisfy that in my mind. Colorado requires recurring, every 10 year training classes. I don't see that as necessary. The two states I have, non-resident, permits in that require demonstration of competence...Maine and Virginia...are good with my professional background in perpetuity.

[xsailer]

If there was IF there was ANY other way than a Gov agency to be a legitimate verifying source of a CC person having been shown the basics of CC then I would be for it. I hate to see the Gov get their abusive hands in the pie then I'm all for it. What would be acceptable then: NRA, shooting organizations, Clubs???

The above post suggestions of accepting Vererans, etc. is good.

[Barth]

As previously stated -
Constitutional carry has worked well in Arizona and other states for years.

Reciprocity with other states is an issue - hence I still have my Florida permit.
But I'm for constitutional carry.

[ScottM]

no licence to conceal carry? thoughts/opinions welcome

as a part time bank teller and part time stay at home dad... i wish the courses were cheaper.. lol

maybe ill see if my friend could give me a course on one of my days off.. oh wait.. i dont have those.. lol

Great point. That is indeed the down side - cost and availability. And actually that's an excellent argument against training as a requirement. In fact, it would be a liberal argument if liberals liked guns because low-income citizens are disadvantaged whenever flat fees are involved. Like, $100 is no biggie if you're making above median income, but when you're juggling and pedaling and just making ends meet, that $100 just isn't there. As a result, lower economic classes would be discriminated against, as would the elderly and anyone unable to get to a class due to distance or schedule or disability.

The other aspect is how much that person's safety (and family and public) is compromised by not having any training. Back in the colonial days, there might not be a single person without firearm exposure growing up, and that isn't the case today.

Is peer pressure enough today to pride/shame carriers to seek training on their own as a best practice?

[pwilson]

that $100 just isn't there.

$100 for the class... and then another $100 for the permit... thats almost an entire paycheck for the average part time employee

[ScottM]

$100 for the class... and then another $100 for the permit... thats almost an entire paycheck for the average part time employee

Right. And yet the public had no problem making me shell out $400 for my child's driver training and ID fees, and another $1500 per year in insurance, to mitigate the public safety risks of a young driver.