no licence to conceal carry? thoughts/opinions welcome

[marcinstl]

" my child's"
now surely somebody explained how that happens, where they come from? or was it a negligent discharge? (start slapping your knee and laugh hard anywhere here).
I was just reading that the average kid costs about $250K from age 0 to 18, college not included. did they tell you that? on the plus side, we live in this socialist paradise with public education and some healthcare, so that might defray the costs of breeding. (about 70% of my property taxes go to supporting an unaccredited and failing school district, that kind of sours me.)
part of the reason I conceal carry is to defend myself from the offspring of ne'er-do-wells. the above mentioned public school isn't even capable of producing students with an ability to speak conversational or business English. opps, feel a rant coming on, time to stop. good luck, have a nice day.

[ScottM]

" my child's"
now surely somebody explained how that happens, where they come from? or was it a negligent discharge? (start slapping your knee and laugh hard anywhere here).

LOL. I've heard scientists think they know where kids come from but I'm sticking with the stork theory, because scientists are fools and only produce results that affirm their own government funding gravy train.

[xsailer]

One of the things I didn't like about the legal CC process was the cost and the time I waited to getting my permit. I remember it was it was well over $200. $85 8 hr. class, $100 to Att. Gen., $33 approx. to Sheriff. At the time it was 90 days after taking two checks to the Sheriff dept that I received my CC approval which had to be taken the licence bureau where I paid that fee (approx. $16) to get my photo CC card/permit. Of course I didn't get the photo card then as it would be mailed to me. While waiting for it I was allowed to CC using the receipt of my application for the CC photo permit card.
The Class, Permit and related expenses nearly cost as much as my weapon.

[CCHGN]

I agree with Constitutional carry. Permit is the root word for permission, I don't need permission to keep and bear arms. However, I DO think all who carry should have to carry a card (much like a Driver's License) of training and practice, issued by trainers or gun shops, with mandatory ongoing training and practice and kept up to date. Exemption if ongoing competition shooting.

[CPTKILLER]

We should never have to beg for any Constitutional Right nor pay a fee for it period!

Texas is not in good shape with this with the RINOs and lethargic gun owners.

[Bawanna]

I have no issue with a card to carry showing you are legal and not a certified nut case although I don't see any way to tell if one is really a certified nut case. Doubt there will ever be a way, only the ones already caught and put in the rubber room are a sure thing. Everyone else just hasn't been caught yet.
The card should be cheap and fast to get. It doesn't take long to do a back ground check (I do them everyday) and it shouldn't be a money maker for the state and the feds.

I totally disagree with mandatory training or even a class to get the permit. Just like the nut cases, who's to say what a certified instructor should look like. Most I've encountered had to deflate their heads to get through a door and talked down to anybody that wasn't in the advanced class.
Not good for young new shooters and especially woman. Basic safety training of course should be available to those who desire or feel the need for it.

Don't know how one would show proof of regular training or practice or regular competition for that matter.

Most gun shops are class acts with good people but their thing is gun knowledge, not necessarily shooting and a few should be selling sewing machines not firearms. I remember one gun shop guy telling me not to even think about night sights on a Kahr, like this was gospel.
Turns out that was his personal opinion and for small guns I actually semi agree but still that's his opinion and really should only be shared as such.
One of the things I have against classes, they are teaching their style or method which seems to always be changing to the latest bestest method.
Again not a bad thing. Remember the old cup and saucer grip. That needed revamping for sure.

Of course in a perfect world they would do away with all the anti gun laws, buy em by mail with no FFL like the old days, no permits, course folks always tell me I was born a 100 years too late, maybe they's right.

[Bobshouse]

We should never have to beg for any Constitutional Right nor pay a fee for it period!

Texas is not in good shape with this with the RINOs and lethargic gun owners.

and with all the Californians relocating there, it's gonna get much, much worse.

[CCHGN]

We should never have to beg for any Constitutional Right nor pay a fee for it period!

Texas is not in good shape with this with the RINOs and lethargic gun owners.

Florida should already have it...but we don't. Doesn't Texas have OC?

[CCHGN]

I have no issue with a card to carry showing you are legal and not a certified nut case although I don't see any way to tell if one is really a certified nut case. Doubt there will ever be a way, only the ones already caught and put in the rubber room are a sure thing. Everyone else just hasn't been caught yet.

Florida just passed a comprehensive pkg (after the Cruz shooting): Raises the age to buy a gun to 21( being challenged); more resource officers in schools ( NO armed teachers); mandatory crisis teams to meet and come up with strategies to prevent school shootings; more Crisis counselors in schools; Enacted the "Red Flag" law- just like domestic violence, if someone is thought a threat, by credible sources, immediate intervention and guns temporarily confiscated and Baker acted and evaluated and treated; ALL LEO and Mental Health entities MUST report any mental health issues to NCIC immediately( they found that entities had been slow reporting, or not at all) 5 entities failed to stop Cruz: the school board; the local PD went to his home 13 times, no action; Mental heath officials saw him 3 times, no action; DCF( Dept of Children and Families(Florida's social services), was called on him twice, no action and finally, the FBI, was notified twice that he was a threat, NO ACTION.

I totally disagree with mandatory training or even a class to get the permit. Just like the nut cases, who's to say what a certified instructor should look like. Most I've encountered had to deflate their heads to get through a door and talked down to anybody that wasn't in the advanced class. Not good for young new shooters and especially woman. Basic safety training of course should be available to those who desire or feel the need for it.

Well, that's a big generalization, there many good trainers out there, ALL who have to be certified with the State. NRA trainers for example. Those so called "big heads" get called out very quickly.

Don't know how one would show proof of regular training or practice or regular competition for that matter.

I've been shooting IDPA and 3 Gun for almost 20 yrs and know that it is an International Organization, certified and acknowledged by States and the NRA and the USA and many Countries. Every meet is recorded with IDPA HQ. Btw, I can tell you, if you hope to compete and even get on the board, you HAVE to practice at home.

Most gun shops are class acts with good people but their thing is gun knowledge, not necessarily shooting and a few should be selling sewing machines not firearms. I remember one gun shop guy telling me not to even think about night sights on a Kahr, like this was gospel. Turns out that was his personal opinion and for small guns I actually semi agree but still that's his opinion and really should only be shared as such. One of the things I have against classes, they are teaching their style or method which seems to always be changing to the latest bestest method.

That's true, but we all have our own mind and can seek training with those that we agree with and pretty soon, the "nut jobs" won't have anyone to teach to. Btw, imo, the nite sights thing has merit. In reality, NONE of us should be trying to shoot someone in the dark IF it's so dark that you can;t see your sights, you should be getting away, to cover and out of danger. The reality is, if ever in a gun fight, you'll likely be so close, that sights will be moot anyway (many of the old shooters removed their sights , as they were more of a liability). I've been doing this for many decades ( I've been stabbed, cut and shot at twice, both times I was unarmed and yes, you CAN dodge bullets) and have found that 99.9% of confrontations are less than lethal. Better to carry Mace or a Taser. I have decided that I will use my gun when they grab ahold of me, then I'm gonna stick it into their chest, at an upward angle and shoot them 'til they fall.

Of course in a perfect world they would do away with all the anti gun laws, buy em by mail with no FFL like the old days, no permits, course folks always tell me I was born a 100 years too late, maybe they's right.

Yep same here, but alas, it'll never happen. If the last SCOTUS showed us anything, it was how many Americans agree with the Left. The Pendulum swings to and fro.

[berettabone]

We have had legal open carry in my state forever. You shouldn't have to pay to carry concealed, when you can open carry for free. But alas, you do. To earn that right, you should be able to prove that you can shoot, disassemble, and clean your firearm. To me, besides the state making a few bucks on a license, if you send someone to a class, and there is no type of qualification other than sitting there for a time period listening to the legal mumbo jumbo, without actually showing that you can handle your firearm safely, it's just a waste of time. My CCL course was 9 hrs. with a qualifying shoot. You had to score above a certain number to receive your license. If you muzzled someone, you were gone, no refund, accepted by all that were there. You didn't need to be able to hit a gnat at 50 yds., you shot from defensive distances, and I thought it was fair considering some people were shooting snubby revolvers. I have seen and continue to see people with CCL licenses who don't have a clue and shouldn't be allowed to carry a purse much less a firearm. To charge them a fee, and allow them to do this, is a danger to me. If they shoot themselves, no issue. They are not being realistic. These licensing places popped up everywhere, and every Tom, Dick and Harry became a certified instructor all of a sudden. To show films and discuss legal ramifications. My wife made sure, before she got a license, that she knew all of the above. How to shoot, how to clean, how to disassemble, how to be safe. I really don't want anyone around me, license or not, that cannot at least do these things. I wish that others would be more responsible, but they are not. They need to be forced to be able to do these things. Want a license, prove that you are worthy, and not just one more danger to society. The whole mental thing is a fine line. A very short jump from sane to not sane. I'm afraid that just using a short questionnaire would eliminate half of society, depending on your thoughts. The whole Cruz thing, they just dropped the ball. No one wanted to take responsibility to take firearms away from someone who clearly shouldn't have had them. The libtards of this world are so anti firearm, but yet they are more concerned about hurting someone's feelings by taking their firearms away. You can't have it both ways.

[CCHGN]

...The whole mental thing is a fine line. A very short jump from sane to not sane. I'm afraid that just using a short questionnaire would eliminate half of society, depending on your thoughts.

I took classes from the University of Maryland, Business Mgmt was my major, but Psychology was my minor, particularly Abnormal Psych. The truth is, the Psych community agrees, that a person who has potential to snap is VERY predictable, as it is a culmination of a lifetime of abuse, usually coupled with some mental disability. What that translates to is that the person is VERY noticeable as a "weirdo". Everyone who knows them, knows that something ain't right. It's the child who takes pleasure in mutilating small animals, the kid who is socially backward or retarded. The dark loner, who doesn't fit in, anywhere. From Columbine to Virginia Tech, to Cruz, they ALL protested on social medias and folks ignored it. They were able to go in and buy guns legally because the proper authorities, who KNEW they had problems, didn't report them to NCIC. So all that created a perfect storm that ends in tragedy. I call it dysfunction. In the Marines, we called it a malfunctioning unit. The problem has also been dysfunctional adults, not having the tools to deal with it. Schools just pass them along or suspend them, making them someone else's problem. Too many families want to think "they'll grow out of it". Most people look the other way and thank God it's not them or theirs. Officials, who should be dealing with are simply more concerned with putting their time in and want to just wash their hands of it. Well, these school shootings and mass shootings are forcing Society to take a good hard look at the problems. The Psych community knows the problem starts very young. IN Florida,observations and testing will start in grade school. The Crisis Counselors? They're being trained to look for the signs in problem students and being A LOT more pro-active in intervening. I'm so proud to be a Native Floridian. Our leaders jumped on the real problems, while Students protesting and demanding gun control and the Left financing and coaching them, all the way the D.C., ignoring the real problems. The left says they will never let a good tragedy go to waste.

[dustnchips]

I am all for permitting and the process should include responsibilities under the law and gun training to include marksmanship and safety.

[Barth]

I am all for permitting and the process should include responsibilities under the law and gun training to include marksmanship and safety.

Although Constitutional Carry sounds good.
I prefer CCW with required training and background checks.
We are the good guys and verifying that sounds good to me.
BTW - My picture CCW make for one hell of a second picture ID.
Has worked extremely well in financial institutions

[CCHGN]

Although Constitutional Carry sounds good.
I prefer CCW with required training and background checks.
We are the good guys and verifying that sounds good to me.
BTW - My picture CCW make for one hell of a second picture ID.
Has worked extremely well in financial institutions

Sure and you can buy a gun and walk out with it, but otoh, if the State decided to confiscate guns, they have a ready made list of gun owners, who they KNOW has guns and will go there 1st. Btw, you get a background check when you buy the gun. So what other freedoms are we prepared to give up for the sake of safety. What's the saying? Those that are willing to give up freedoms for the sake of safety, deserve neither. Here's my thing, no matter what kind of training they've had or not had, or whatever card they have or don't have, I really don't care, if I'm out and about and anyone does something stupid around me, like pull a gun or be careless with a gun, etc., I'm going to give them two options, right then: 1. hand me the gun, right now or 2. I'll take it off their bleeding or dead body and they have about 2 seconds to decide. IF they choose #1, I'll empty it and hand it back to them, reprimanding them for their stupidity and invite them to get far away from me. If they do NOT choose #1, IDK, they all of a sudden pulled a gun on me and it's self defense. Other than that, life will go on as usual. Btw, what "required training" are you talking about? 4 hrs of class and then go out back and shoot a .22? My DW took a CCL class last week and they shot simunitions, indoors and each took 4 shots. I wouldn't call that anything. Weapon manipulation is a fraction of the responsibility of a CCW. In my house, we carry all day, every day, everywhere and have dry fire practice every day( except Sunday), mandatory (or else, whom ever misses 2 days in a row, their guns get locked up and they may not carry, until they agree to get with the program or decide to not carry at all). We have a range on the property and practice live fire 3 times a week- shooting while moving, running to and shooting from cover, tac reloads, multiple targets, malfunctions, etc. Btw, I let my CCL expire 15 yrs ago. Concealed means concealed. Same as raising children. Alot of folks think that public schools are supposed to give their kids an education. I say no way, their REAL education is at home- life lessons. We raised 3 kids that way, they now have their own families. YMMV

[b4uqzme]

This discussion mirrors the gun ownership argument: either it's constitutional or not. The 2A says that our rights cannot be infringed. That implies for any reason. It's up to the individual to act responsibly. Violators should be punished. But only after they abuse their freedoms.

A very wise man once told me (he owned car dealerships) that the best value was either the least expensive variant of a model or the most loaded up. Everything in between is a compromise. The same is true with politics. Either you want freedom or your want government control. Everything in between means that someone has to decide where to draw the line. Sounds like that is what we are discussing here: where to draw the line. Who gets to decide how much of our freedoms are an acceptable sacrifice?