9mm.Do you feel safe?

[tv_racin_fan]

I am of the opinion the 22 you will carry is better than the 45 you leave in the truck. That said I generally carry a K9, I will sometimes swap out with the wife and carry her CW9 and I would have no issue with the P380.

[oldtex]

This is my opinion on the subject. There's no such thing as stopping power. Rendering a threat physically incapable of injuring you requires hitting the right structures in his body, and those structures (brain stem, upper spinal cord, heart, arteries) are protected by bone and/or by depth in the body. For me all handgun calibers are of marginal power.

9mm Parabellum(standard pressure)and .38 Special (+P) with currently available loads are the floor level of cartridges that can offer both sufficient reliable penetration and reasonably reliable expansion.

Any cartridge above this level can offer increases in tissue destruction but usually at a cost of greater difficulty of controlling the weapon during rapid fire, increased muzzle blast, increased flash, lower onboard ammunition capacity, etc. Whether this tradeoff is worth it is a matter of personal choice.

Anything below the 9mm/.38 +P level either has to sacrifice sufficient penetration or reliable expansion. For various reasons (need for an extremely concealable gun, physical difficulty in controlling anything more powerful, etc) guns in these calibers are attractive to lots of folks.

I'm content to carry a 9mm Glock 34 as my primary weapon, and a PM9 and/or .38 +P revolver(s) as backup(s).

If I expected to need to shoot through automobile windshields I would probably choose .40 or .45 ACP instead of 9mm, though, because the best .40 and .45 loads apparently do that better than the best 9mm loads.

[WMD]

Interesting.... I believe Marshall and Sullivan (I hope I have the names correctly) have been keeping stats on "one shot stops" for the past decades. The .45 is still the reigning champ! One shot stops being defined as, the fight is over after the person has been hit once. I understand these stats are taken from LE gunfights as a majority of the source. This would tend to make one believe "there is" stopping power based upon what caliber you are using. Isn't it all about energy at impact?

[oldtex]

Interesting.... I believe Marshall and Sullivan (I hope I have the names correctly) have been keeping stats on "one shot stops" for the past decades. The .45 is still the reigning champ! One shot stops being defined as, the fight is over after the person has been hit once. I understand these stats are taken from LE gunfights as a majority of the source. This would tend to make one believe "there is" stopping power based upon what caliber you are using. Isn't it all about energy at impact?

Interesting info on how bullets interact with the human body at the m4carbine.net website in their terminal ballistics forum.

Among other problems, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's books don't take into account the type of tissue that a bullet hits. If the bullet hits abdominal muscle (as an example)that's very different from having it hit the heart muscle. Yet Marshall and Sanow's methodology treat this difference as being completely unimportant. I have their first two books and find some of the data contained in them useful (ballistic gelatin penetration data) but I don't find their "one shot stop" percentages to be useful or even convincing.

I don't buy the energy dump school of thought. If it was "all about energy", then a bullet absorbed by a protective vest would injure the wearer just as severely as that same bullet impacting the heart, lungs, brain, spinal cord, or an artery of the person wearing the vest.

Google Dr. Martin Fackler and you'll find great info about a combat surgeon's thoughts on what bullets do to human bodies. Google Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow and you'll find info as well.

[Mdubtech]

I have a PM9 and a K40 which I both carry. Sold my Taurus 24/7 .45 ACP. The Kahrs I can actually carry! I have to say the .40 is a seriously potent round with the high chamber pressure but the 9mm is no joke with good shot placement. 124grn JHP Hydroshocks will stop most aggressors imho.
Never felt undergunned but sorry for someone w/o one.

[500KV]

I carry my PM9 more often than not, however with the Crossbreed MT I can conceal the CW45 and Kimber almost as well and the heft of the .45 just inspires my confidence a little more.
I also tend to be more accurate with the .45s; don't know why, just me I guess.

Don't think the effectiveness of the .45 vs 9mm round is a real factor anymore as has been pointed out.
It really boils down to personal preference, concealability, accuracy, confidence, etc.

[Grabbrass]

I prefer 9mm ballistics from a short barrel over .45acp ballistics from a short barrel.

I prefer 9mm handling (recoil and followup) over the .40sw.

I prefer 9mm prices (though it too is expensive these days), which makes for more affordable training.

I also prefer a Rem870 12 gauge with an 18"bbl, 6+1, and a speedfeed stock over any handgun ... but I have trouble getting one in my pocket.

[Colossal Uprising]

I am new here, but wanted to weigh in. I was a 1911 .45 fanatic - I have owned Kimber, Paras, Llama.

Last year I was forced to sell my last 1911 because I have rheumatoid arthritis and shooting a magazine full at the range made my hand ache so bad....it was time for something smaller.

I bought a Kahr K40 and it has been the best gun I have ever owned. .40 is my preferred cartridge. However, I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 9mm.

I would not carry a mouse gun in a caliber smaller than 9mm. But a 9mm +p is an outstanding round with good penetration.

It is also an outstanding round for a beginner CCW.

[TopDog]

I know that the 9mm is looked upon with disdain by many in the military but I believe that it`s because the military is bound by the rules to carry only FMJ ammo.

Excellent point and well taken. A good hollow point 9mm does respectable damage. I have always been a fan of the four B's - Big Bores Bust Better. A larger hole bleeds out more, causes more damage. And then nothing is more important than shot placement. A good hit with a .22 is far more effective than a bad hit or even miss with a .44 Mag.

All that being said I look at this way. Carry the weapon you are most effective with. If it's a 9mm that you can shoot proficiently then have confidence that with the proper defensive round you will be well armed.

[Cappy]

I have to agree with 500KV, I am more accuate with my p45, then I am with my PM9. My reasoning is the added barrel length. However, I am more accuate with my M&P 9mm than I am with either Kahr. Again, more barrel to work with! Prior to getting my PM9, my M&P was my favorite gun to shoot at the range. Now, it is my PM9. I love that gun. My wife may say even more than her (lmao)

[Wayne's World]

I carry the PM9 and I'm not too bad with it at the range but I had the opportunity to shoot a 9mm Sig (2022 I think) with a 3 3/4 or 4' barrel. I defiantly shot better with the longer barrel but would hate to carry it. Much too big for me to hide. I am intrigued by the 45 cal. though.

Question;
Has anyone considered using the extended "ported" barrel that Kahr sells, in the PM9 frame?

[WWhunter]

I have both a PM9 and a PM45. 99% of the time it is the 45 that is in the holster. I only got the PM9 because everything led me to believe it was much smaller...it isn't. I can conceal the PM45 most of the time and only use the PM9 when I have to dress light and be more descreet.
Having said this you can guess what my response is....I am a firm believer in making a bigger hole. While there have been termendous strides in ammo developement the chance of an HP not expeanding is probably greatrer than most guy want to believe. Therefore...I still like making bigger holes.
WW

[dirksterg30]

With any of the modern high-quality hollowpoints, a 9mm is just as effective as a .40/.45/.357 etc.

[Longitude Zero]

I prefer the 45. Regardless of the bullet type the 45 punches a much bigger hole.

[johnh]

Modern ammunition technology has certainly changed my view on this. Back in the 80's I felt that there were no reliably expanding hollowpoints for the 9mm, so became a proponent of the 45. I still am, but also will admit that there are now many good choices in 9mm ammunition. This has affected my willingness to carry a 9mm and feel adequately armed, so I do so regularly. I suspect if one looked at long term trends in one shot stops and other records detailing ballistic performance in LE shootings, there would be a tendency for the 9mm to perform better over time. I have not seen any such comparison. What I can say is that the kind of performance given in gellatin and detailed by the media from current loads was not commonly reported in the 1980s when the caliber debate seemed to gain strength due to LE adoption of 9mm handguns.

John