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Longer-range self defense.

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  • Longer-range self defense.

    I've seen lot's of comments over the years on the net about how any longer range self defense is: gonna get you in trouble, can't be done, shouldn't be done, won't get done as there would never be a need, etc. Let me tell y'all a little story.

    This is a true story. You believe it, or not, up to you. This happened some years back and was never reported to John Law, for various and sundry reasons.

    A man and his wife went on vacation in their RV. They park way at the back of a virtually empty camp ground. They both get out to walk the front of the park, which is a ways.

    She has some health issues that crop up now and again, (and so did he) and they did. So she parks herself on a nearby bench, reassuring her man that she'll be fine, "What could go wrong?"

    On the way back, his wife comes into veiw and she's still on the bench, but she's no longer alone. Two guys are there, and they ain't friendly, they're taunting, pushing and generally terrorizing her. Hasn't got bloody yet, but he knows it's coming. This sort of attack is quite common in this area at this time. They always injure, sometimes rape, sometimes kill.

    Now, he is armed, sort of. A two inch five shot, the range is long, probably between 100 and 150 yards.

    He knows he can't cover that distance in time to save her. What do you do? What did he do?

    He laid down prone. Knowing that she was very close, that he had but five shots and time was short.

    The first round the bad guys didn't even notice. They did the second, but they thought it was pretty funny after a moment of shock. At the third round, the taller one screamed and they both became track stars.

    His wife was fine, and they to booked out of there. Fortunatly the office was closed and no one knew they were there.

    Just one example. Still sure you'll never, ever need to shoot at distance with your CCW?


    Cat

  • #2
    interesting.... I wouldn't take a shot over 100 yards with a snubby
    Focus on your front sight..... The rest should be blurry!

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    • #3
      Ah yes the quintessential internet tale........... My understanding of the law in my state causes me to believe I would not be justified in shooting at two people harassing my wife from one hundred yards away with a snub nose. Even a slow person can cover one hundred yards quickly. In the time it takes to lay down and line up a shot you could be most of the way there.

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      • #4
        Hope the wifey would understand.

        Originally posted by GadsdenGalt View Post
        Ah yes the quintessential internet tale........... My understanding of the law in my state causes me to believe I would not be justified in shooting at two people harassing my wife from one hundred yards away with a snub nose. Even a slow person can cover one hundred yards quickly. In the time it takes to lay down and line up a shot you could be most of the way there.
        I think I'd be in cuffs too. Maybe they'd give us a matching pair? As described, it's an unjustified shooting. May change in five seconds, but until then, can't do it. Hope the wifey would understand.
        "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
        (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers)

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        • #5
          I have an LEO friend and when we practice together, he normally shoots at 50 to 60 yds. His idea is "You just never know". He says he just doesn't want bad guys gettin that close. Most of the time when we shoot at those ranges he is using a G34 and I'm shooting a 1911, not a snubby.

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          • #6
            Pushing is assault... and seeing someone coming their way, they might escalate things or attack her more viciously before they depart, if that was their plan.

            That's why I don't carry a 2" snubbie, too. My 3" Kahrs will reach out a lot further... maybe. But the shooting got their attention and it dawned on them that it WAS hazardous to hang around any longer. Bravo for the hubby. Who knows what they might have done while he was trying to get closer.

            Wynn
            USAF Retired '88, NRA Life Member. Wife USAF Retired '96
            Avatar: Wynn re-enlists his wife Desiree, circa 1988 Loring AFB, ME. 42nd BMW, Heavy (SAC) B-52G's
            Frédéric Bastiat’s essay, The Law: http://mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

            Thomas Jefferson said

            “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.”
            and

            "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".

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            • #7
              shooting at someone at 50 yards to me is a real liability issue IMO. Might be one or two times in some shooting where 50 yards handgun shots are necessary but give that case to a prosecutor and u might be in sme deep ****.
              . My PM9 has over 34,000+ rounds through it, and runs much better than an illegal trying to get across our border


              NRA BENEFACTOR MEMBER


              MAY GOD BLESS MUGGSY

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              • #8
                Easily understood

                Originally posted by jfrey View Post
                I have an LEO friend and when we practice together, he normally shoots at 50 to 60 yds.
                I can easily understand an LEO regularly practicing at that range. I can also even conceive of a circumstance where an LEO would take a shot at that range. I'm not sure an LEO would take a shot in the circumstance described. And even if he did, I think the LEO would fare better in court than I would taking the shot!
                "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
                (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyntrout View Post
                  Pushing is assault... and seeing someone coming their way, they might escalate things or attack her more viciously before they depart, if that was their plan.

                  That's why I don't carry a 2" snubbie, too. My 3" Kahrs will reach out a lot further... maybe. But the shooting got their attention and it dawned on them that it WAS hazardous to hang around any longer. Bravo for the hubby. Who knows what they might have done while he was trying to get closer.

                  Wynn
                  Before I continue.... I would like to add that I have not seen nearly enough debates like these on forums and I do not think there can be too many. There are no shortage of 9mm vs 45 threads which lead nowhere. But anything that reminds us of the responsibility we assume when deciding to carry a firearm is a good thing. I can honestly say I have never thought of the scenario the op posted whether it is true or not. So the opportunity to discuss it rather than make a split second decision is something I appreciate.

                  That being said, I would still choose close the distance before resorting to deadly force. I suppose when I consider the fight or flight response, I would expect the scumbags in question to back off or focus on me as I would be the threat if I came running toward my wife.

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                  • #10
                    Wynn, I too think it was justified. However, since I have no "health issues", I think I would have attempted to get closer. I never practice at anything like that range, so I have no idea how my various pistols would perform at 100 yards. An inch to the right at 30 feet might take out a friendly at 100 yards, not to mention the pressure in an actual situation.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyntrout View Post
                      Pushing is assault...
                      Technically... pushing is simple battery.

                      I'm not sure about the validity of the "long range snubby" story. It sounds like a Kobayashi Maru scenario. I've shot a 2" five shot revolver, at 50 yards. There is no way, even laying down, that he could have guaranteed not hitting is wife. No way he could guarantee hitting a bad guy. Its a no fire scenario. Sometimes you just cant win.

                      The tale is too well set up, and so I suspect its fake. The vacant RV camp, nobody else there to help, and they park way in back - even though both have trouble walking. They become separated, he cant return to her, she cant run from danger. Danger is there, and it appears like magic in the midst of vacancy. Neither he or she calls out. And suddenly he becomes Superman with his snubby at 150 yards.

                      Too well set up, and I don't buy it at face value. Qua est testimonium

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bonjorno2 View Post
                        interesting.... I wouldn't take a shot over 100 yards with a snubby
                        I couldn't hit the ground at 100 yards with the Undercover I carried in the '70s. I admire anyone who can. I know I'd never trust myself at that distance with my wife in close proximity.
                        Judging by today's left wing, looks like Senator Joe McCarthy was right after all.

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                        • #13
                          "This sort of attack is quite common in this area at this time. They always injure, sometimes rape, sometimes kill."

                          Yeah....ok....and they just happen to go there and seperate! Totall B/S and made up!

                          Long distance shots with a snubby.....maybe he wanted to shoot his wife? Ya and " BIG FOOT" is real too. Well if a situation actually happened like that, casually walk up close and then pull the snubby.:7: It would be a major stretch to hit accurately at 25 yards with a snubby and not hit the wrong target.
                          "Life Member NRA"
                          I am addicted to brake fluid...don't worry I can STOP at anytime!

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                          • #14
                            I do shoot at 100 yards though the nicest OE SHOT groups you will ever seen. I never wanted to do any better, so I stopped at just one shot, but it was always RIGHT where I aimed.

                            Heh, I cring at the validity of 2" groups at 25 yards with a kahr whenI readit. Wehave seen hundreds of targets from osters here from 10 yards and under and you sure don't see 2" groupls there, but whenone posts that other stuff at 25 yards, Ihave to admire him, for he has to be one great shooter or one great fokking liar. ur pick??
                            . My PM9 has over 34,000+ rounds through it, and runs much better than an illegal trying to get across our border


                            NRA BENEFACTOR MEMBER


                            MAY GOD BLESS MUGGSY

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                            • #15
                              I also agree the story is BS. Definitely too well set up. Oh by the way...., Picture yourself looking at your "disabled" wife being harrassed by two bad guys 150 yards away. You are now in a hi stress situation.... and you are going to hit your target at 150 yards with a snubby? I do not think so. If I was shooting, you can bet I would hit the wife. That is my luck. (or in my best Rod Serling voice) Was it.... bad luck that caused him to hit his wife?....

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