Guns and Ammo reports Colt wins contract

[ripley16]

but the military shoots hard ball ammo in their 45's where as we in our 1911 go with the hp ammo and I think more than anything that is where most issues lie. Just sayin. I neitherown a 45 1911 or want one, and I could be totally wrong here to.

Actually U.S. special units use hollow point ammo in certain circumstances. In general, military units restrict their ammo to ball, but not in every case. Non-military targets, ie: terrorists, are afforded our quickest, most violent dispatching. UBL likely met his maker with a HP in his chest and head.

[Bawanna]

Actually U.S. special units use hollow point ammo in certain circumstances. In general, military units restrict their ammo to ball, but not in every case. Non-military targets, ie: terrorists, are afforded our quickest, most violent dispatching. OBL likely met his maker with a HP in his chest and head.

Kind of makes me smile and feel all giddy inside just thinking about it. Wish I could have been there.

[jocko]

oh I

I hope Jocko doesn't see this.

seen it, just trying to figure out a comment that u 45 guys can actually understand. Nice thing about the 45's is when u miss ,,,, and u will alot, u can go down range and pick up ur bullet and just use it again. They never deform. and if u walk fast enough, u can even catch it in mid air. Just sayin:19:

shootin a 45 is like watching ice cream MELT........ boring comes to mind

[gb6491]

I'm not sure I want any handgun on the battlefield but as a last resort and then I think I'd take capacity over caliber. After that, I think I'd prefer .22tcm or 5.7 'on the battlefield'.

But I recently ran across a video by Yeager where he just tore 1911s up one side and down the other. That guy really has some issues w/ them. I don't have a particular opinion either way, I shoot and carry 9mm exclusively because of price, capacity, and the 'good enough' argument. I don't own any other calibers in handguns. Might some day, but for now I don't have the time or money to maintain ammo stock and shoot with mulitple regularly.

But I'm curious what 1911 owners have to say. Seems there is a significant portion of the gun-owning population out there that don't trust them for anything. Obviously the military holds a different opinion for at least some of the troops it arms.

Yeager, like anybody else, is welcome to his opinion. In his video that I saw, he spent a lot of time talking about his qualifications, followed by some time talking about firearms engineering (where I think he's out of his depth), then some ragging on 1911s, XDs, and 1911 owners. Personally, I didn't see anything substantial in the video and found it more of a soap box expressing of his opinion. I've not met the man, so I don't have anything else to say about him; however, there are quite a few folks that do (a sampling: "A Glock won't weigh you down and hold you back like a 1911 will when you're fleeing an ambush and leaving your mates to die."): http://wethearmed.com/handguns/yeager-on-1911s/

In regards to the "Seems there is a significant portion of the gun-owning population out theredon't trust them (1911s) for anything" comment, there is also a significant portion of the gun-owning population out there that won't trust anything else. To each, their own.

but the military shoots hard ball ammo in their 45's where as we in our 1911 go with the hp ammo and I think more than anything that is where most issues lie. Just sayin. I neitherown a 45 1911 or want one, and I could be totally wrong here to.

Mr brother in law has a 1911 full military 45 and it willnot function worth a damn with any hp rounds but shoots great with ball ammo.. guys here like Bawanna who is a 1911 fan can add or subtract alot from my above comments.Just sayin

A lot of "GI" guns are mismatched builds, but even original (matching parts) "US Property" guns were only required to work reliably with hardball. Soft/expanding nose bullets were not part of the agenda as per the First Hague Peace Conference (and subsequent conventions). The 1911 is hardly alone in this, old Hi Powers are known to choke on hollow points (as will quite a few SIG P6s), but run fine with ball. TT33s would be another example that I have first hand experience with.
That said, many "GI" guns will run hollow points without issue and it usually doesn't take a lot of work to get those that don't to do so.
FWIW, here's a tidbit on the use of "expanding point ammunition" by our armed forces:
"This practice began to change subsequent to a 23 September 1985 opinion issued by the Judge Advocate General2, authored3 by W. Hays Parks4, Chief of the JAG's International Law Branch, for the signature of Major General Hugh R. Overholt, which stated:"…expanding point ammunition is legally permissible in counterterrorist operations not involving the engagement of the armed forces of another State."" http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

Regards,
Greg

[TucsonMTB]

In regards to the "Seems there is a significant portion of the gun-owning population out theredon't trust them (1911s) for anything" comment, there is also a significant portion of the gun-owning population out there that won't trust anything else. To each, their own.

Regards,
Greg

+1 . . . Bravo! Spoken like the genuine gentleman that you certainly are.

Admittedly, 1911's don't work for pocket carry, but they do seem to excel at all of the other tasks I assign them.

[chrish]

Yeager, like anybody else, is welcome to his opinion. In his video that I saw, he spent a lot of time talking about his qualifications, followed by some time talking about firearms engineering (where I think he's out of his depth), then some ragging on 1911s, XDs, and 1911 owners. Personally, I didn't see anything substantial in the video and found it more of a soap box expressing of his opinion. I've not met the man, so I don't have anything else to say about him; however, there are quite a few folks that do (a sampling: "A Glock won't weigh you down and hold you back like a 1911 will when you're fleeing an ambush and leaving your mates to die."): http://wethearmed.com/handguns/yeager-on-1911s/

In regards to the "Seems there is a significant portion of the gun-owning population out theredon't trust them (1911s) for anything" comment, there is also a significant portion of the gun-owning population out there that won't trust anything else. To each, their own.

Thanks for the thoughts. I go back-n-forth in where a 1911 exists in my purchase list. Some days it's next, others it gets bumped down quite a ways. Never at the bottom. Just so much negative and positive out there. My reasons for not buying one have NEVER been concern over the caliber, quality, reliability necessarily. More weight and focusing on concealed carry issues (safeties, size, weight) over the years and commonality of ammo in what I do have (as mentioned).

There are 1911s 'in the family' just not in my possession or gun safe. So ultimately to purchase or not is a moot point. They are definitely a joy to shoot and I have access to them to get my kicks when needed.

As for James Yeager, yes, he's opinionated all right and in the end I'll buy or not buy, own or not own, based on my own experience w/ the access I do have to 1911s. Just wanted some folks' take on his whole 'sucky reliability' argument that he makes. But as you said, he's not the only one saying it and there are as many on his side and the pro-1911 side. Makes for great thread fodder.

[nmkahrshooter]

I guess its what a person prefers, as a member of the armed forces for 22 years I was issued a 45, then a 38, then the 9mm. If I had to choose I would want the 45. Just my preference.

[getsome]

I'm real happy for the jar heads since they lost the right to roll up their fatigue blouse sleeves which was their trademark look now at least at the end of their rolled down sleeves there will be an old familiar American made war horse pistol ready to get the job done quickly, reliably and efficiently....:86:

[O'Dell]

Mr brother in law has a 1911 full military 45 and it willnot function worth a damn with any hp rounds but shoots great with ball ammo.. guys here like Bawanna who is a 1911 fan can add or subtract alot from my above comments.Just sayin

All five of my 1911's function fine with HP's, as I think most modern ones do. In fact, the Detonics seems to prefer them since it feels smoother with them rather than ball.

The only pistol I've had in the last thirty or so years that didn't like HP ammo was a 1980 SIG P6, but it was a European gun and wasn't designed for HP. It would shoot Golden Sabers fine, however.

[gb6491]

I'm real happy for the jar heads since they lost the right to roll up their fatigue blouse sleeves which was their trademark look now at least at the end of their rolled down sleeves there will be an old familiar American made war horse pistol ready to get the job done quickly, reliably and efficiently....:86:

That's "Jarheads" with a capital "J" buster
Semper Fi,
Greg

[chipD]

Just my opinion, I think the 1911 was a great choice. I have to add, that I think when it comes to our military we should avoid procurement from foreign suppliers whenever their is a domestic supplier. In my mind there is a sizable security risk in reliance with foreign suppliers. With the ever changing political landscape a friend today my very well not be a friend tomorrow. When I was involved with Operation El Dorado Canyon, the French did not agree with the action and banned our Airman from their air space. This caused an extra 12 hours of flight time and risk to the mission. So if one of our suppliers does not agree with us, then what could happen to the supply chain?

[les strat]

Just my opinion, I think the 1911 was a great choice. I have to add, that I think when it comes to our military we should avoid procurement from foreign suppliers whenever their is a domestic supplier. In my mind there is a sizable security risk in reliance with foreign suppliers. With the ever changing political landscape a friend today my very well not be a friend tomorrow. When I was involved with Operation El Dorado Canyon, the French did not agree with the action and banned our Airman from their air space. This caused an extra 12 hours of flight time and risk to the mission. So if one of our suppliers does not agree with us, then what could happen to the supply chain?

Good point.

Like I said, great to support an American company

[Longitude Zero]

chipD the reverse of that philosophy is how the military got stuck with Beretta's. In order to base cruise missiles in Italy we had to buy Beretta pistols. Tit for Tat.

[ripley16]

Our military, and perhaps Marines in particular have long used small arms produced by manufacturers associated with other countries. FN supplies the Corps with many arms. Beretta of course has a large presence. HK now supplies the IAR. Quantico tests many arms. FN has a facility just down the road near Fredericksburg. Beretta is just across the river. HK has offices in the general area. The arms business is very international these days. No getting away from it.

The base has been unusually quiet for many months. I'm guessing budgets are causing less live fire to occur, fewer training flights, almost no artillery.

[OlympicFox]

Hmmmm. A Sig P226 or a 1911 as a battle gun. Note, I said battle gun not CCW or target pistol.

Frankly, I'm a fan of both platforms.

Sig P226:

• P226R 40
• P226 Elite Stainless 40
• P226 Elite Dark 40
• P226 X-Five Tactical

1911:

• Springfield Trophy Match
• Kimber Ultra II
• Kimber Crimson Ultra II
• Dan Wesson CCO
• S&W 1911Sc
• Dan Wesson Guardian
• Dan Wesson Pointman 9
• Nighthawk Talon
• Nighthawk Dominator

I regularly shoot my SA and both Nighthawks in IDPA along with lots of practice. My 1911's are well cared for and the 45's are unfussy and reliable, especially the SA - it just shoots and shoots. But, for when the SHTF, my Sig P226 Elite Stainless, an SCT mag full of 40-caliber Ranger-T & strobe/laser combo on the rail make it my go-to gun. Why? Well, it holds twice as much ammo and no chance of a brain fart at O'dark-thirty fumbling the thumb safety. And 43 ounces of solid stainless makes it steady as a rock and easy to shoot. JMO, of course. My wife owns 5 of those 1911's but her go-to gun is a 2.5" S&W 686 357 Mag.

If I were in a position to pick my battle side arm, I think I'd also prefer the Colt. The Sigs are fine, and I'm sure the HKs are every bit as fine, but I just have no affection for the Beretta service pistols. Still, make mine a 1911..... all steel.