SCCY - What do owners think?

[TheShadow]

Thanks for that report! I just picked mine up today. I'll be going to the range friday (supposed to be 75 degrees) and will report back. I'm interested to see how mine compares with yours as to accuracy and keyhole issue. I agree about the squareness of the trigger. Since SCCY only wants 5 bucks for a trigger I'll get one and re-contour it.

Terry

[pbagley]

That is an excellent idea. Nice and smooth and rounded perhaps?

[TheShadow]

Yes, exactly. The trigger is plastic. How much I can remove and still maintain the needed strength depends on just how hollow it is. That's why I'm going to work on an extra.

Terry

[mp95b]

My brother in-law owns a 1st gen. CPX-2 the slide stop is glockish and very difficult to use. It appears that the Gen.2 has one with a little more purchase...... Overall not bad, and a really nice price!

[pbagley]

SCCY Contact Form (on their web site) filled and sent:
Comments:
I'm contacting you about improving the accuracy of my CPX2. In
my first range session I found that the first 10 shots did not
hit a 25 yard repair center (standard timed and rapid center) at
25 yards using Federal Champion 115gr RN factory ammunition.
After expanding the target area to 24" by 24" I found that only 7
of 10 were on the paper with many shots going high.
Most concerning were two key holes, both high and right, in
the first 50 rounds. The best group in the first 125 founds has
been 5 out of 10 on a repair center (1x, 2 9's, 2 7's, photo
available on request).
You may want to say it is the shooter. In many cases you
could be right. In this case maybe not. I am a former bullseye
competitor with an expert classification. I am able to put 10
shots out of 10 onto a 25 yard repair center (at 25 yards) using
a Kahr CM9, a Taurus 738TCP, and a S&W 642 (as well as other
short sight radius firearms). Typically the best groups have
been when using premium SD ammo, but lower cost factory practice
ammo has also held this level of accuracy for me.
After my range session I cleaned the CPX2 and found the bore
to be quite rough.
On a positive note, the CPX2 had no failures of any kind in
the first 125 rounds.
What can be done to improve the accuracy of my CPX2? I'd like
to eliminate the key-holing and get the group sizes down into the
6-8" range with factory 115gr rn ammunition.

Thank you,

- Paul

I'll update this thread with their reply.

[mikemc53]

I owned a SCCY cpx2 for about 7 months. I actually liked the gun but just never felt it was going to be reliable enough for me to EDC. I sold it and bought my CM9 - which turned out to be a great move.

The SCCY is solidly built with excellent customer service. I found them great to work with and they truly do stand solidly behind their product. The fact that I had to send it back twice in a few month period of time just kind of sapped my confidence in the gun. It may have been (and stayed) perfect after the second repair but I just couldn't get myself to hang on to it.

My CM9 has been flawless but I know there are others who've had issues. To me it's all about what makes you, as the owner, comfortable. I think online reviews can be helpful but, as the OP noted, every single gun manufacturer out there has had dissatisfied customers and those are usually the ones posting on forums or writing reviews.

You won't hear me bashing any particular brand as junk because I have seen and known of plenty of pricier models that had "issues" so, say what you will, but you DON"T always get what you pay for. It's about personal preference and only the person buying/deciding can make that call.

By the way, the SCCY, to me had a bit more recoil than my CM9 but that's all relative. I will say that the CM9 conceals slightly easier (somewhat slimmer) and the trigger is much cleaner and smoother on the Kahr. Would I ever buy another SCCY? Maybe...ya never know.

[Megawatt]

My CPX2 was shooting high so I got a lower rear sight from SCCY for free. Changed it out and the grouping of the POA and POI was greatly improved. The 10 round mags hold 11 rounds with no modification and has been functioning 100% so far (about 4 months of ownership). Except for magazine capacity and warranty, I say my CW9 and PM9 are better in every way. The SCCY manual does state "+P CARTRIDGES SHOULD NEVER BE USED IN THE MODEL CPX".

Is it a good gun for the $$? I would says it can be as I got one for under $300 out the door. But you really need to know its limitations.

[TheShadow]

They must have strengthened the Gen 2 because my manual says, "limited " and "No more than 50 rounds +P per session."



Terry

[Megawatt]

They must have strengthened the Gen 2 because my manual says, "limited " and "No more than 50 rounds +P per session."

Terry

My CPX-2 was made in September 23, 2013. It is a Gen 2. Looks like they have some publication issues to sort out.

[89grand]

I have a CPX-2 and think it's a great gun for the money ($259), so far anyway. I've only had it out once, last Sunday, but I put about 80 rounds through it with zero malfunctions. That's not enough to declare it totally reliable, but it's a start.

One thing I'd like to mention is that the magazine springs are often installed backward. I have 3 mags, and I had to swap the springs around on all 3 of them because as they came, the springs were installed in a way that would make the follower nose down, instead of up. I find that pretty absurd, but at least it is easy to do.

I'm going to need some time to adjust to the trigger as it's a lot different than any of my other handguns, but with practice I think it will be fine for its intended use, and that isn't to be a range gun.

For what I know, limited +P's are fine. I can't imagine anyone wanting to shoot those full time considering the cost. I think they'd be perfect for carry rounds, and enough to feel good about carrying them, but who shoots a steady diet of rounds that cost over $1 each?

[pbagley]

Update on the SCCY contact form:

I received this e-mail from SCCY (support@sccy.com):
Dear, Mr. Bagley please give the factory a call and ask for Brandon. He is one of our techs and would be happy to assist you. The number is 386-322-6336.

Chris Jones
Sales Manager
Email: chrisj@sccy.com
Cell: 678-758-3204
------------------------

I called Brandon today and described the problem. Of course he tried to pass my problem off as poor marksmanship... or being unfamiliar with small subcompact firearms. Once I explained that I've been shooting NRA bullseye since 1981 and that I can keep 10 for 10 shots on a standard Timed/Rapid repair center at 25 yards using a S&W 642, Kahr cm9, and Taurus 738TCP I think he began to listen. Then I described the two keyholes. Now he thinks we have a barrel problem. He passed me along to Jason.

Jason and I had the same conversation about my marksmanship, though a little shorter this time. Jason says he wants my barrel to look at, with a short description of the issue. He says he will also send a shorter rear sight to allow me the option of having point of aim sighting instead of the 6 o'clock hold that the current sights require. I expect this will result in a 6 o'clock hold using 124 gr bullets - Jason said they use 115gr in their testing so this will be an experiment I will need to carry out.

Last I spoke to someone else, and I missed her name. Sorry. She is e-mailing a return mailing label to send the barrel back to them for Jason.

All of the conversations were polite and friendly, even when they were questioning my marksmanship. No problem on that point. Many have questioned, some were later convinced through demonstration. And I hate to sound defensive, but I've put a lot of work into developing this particular skill. Most people would have achieved a Master classification after this much effort and ammo, so I suppose I'm being held back by my natural lack of native skills and making up for it is hard work and practice.

I'll post back to this thread once the new barrel is here.

[pbagley]

Quick update. Later the same day Danice called me back. My e-mail address was bouncing. There was a problem with b's and v's being switched in the address, and as she read it to me it sure sounded correct. I ended up using the old phonic alphabet (LE, not Military) to get it straightened out. Problem fixed, shipping label and return form received.

I made an attempt to photograph the bore before I sent the barrel back. I think I saw the problem, but capturing a digital image of what I saw was difficult. Here's the best of my photos.


You can see the headspacing step at the end of the chamber, but then there is a second step in the forcing cone. There are scratches in the rifling grooves following the rotation, but at the forcing cone, the start of rifling, there is a cut straight down the barrel, across the lands. This looks odd to me.

A second view:


Something I did not notice until this morning is that the second step seems to be off center. There is more of a step on one side than the other. This may just be an illusion in the photos. I didn't even notice the second step, down the barrel from the chamber, until I I found it in these photos this morning.

If I were to guess I'd say that the forcing cone may be a little over-size. This may allow a bullet to enter the rifling a little canted. The offset step in the forcing cone could aggravate the situation causing even more bullet upset entering the rifling. The more upset the bullet, the more chance for wobble. More wobble leads to instability and potential tumbling in flight.

Or I could be full of it.

When the new barrel gets here I'll update with more photos. Would it be helpful to compare it to the Kahr CM9 barrel?

I wonder if I could talk SCCY into making a match barrel. Decent cut rifling, mirror polish so cast bullets would not lead, perhaps a shorter throat similar to what I think the Kahr has? I think the little CPX2 has a lot of potential. A few little tweaks and we'd have something really good.

[pbagley]

I owned a SCCY cpx2 for about 7 months. I actually liked the gun but just never felt it was going to be reliable enough for me to EDC. I sold it and bought my CM9 - which turned out to be a great move.

<SNIP>

Hi Mike, Slow I am to pick up on your comment. Sorry, and I appreciate you sharing your experience as an owner. Even if it was as a former owner. The information is valuable.

Jason and Brandon were both friendly and good to talk to. One thing I would offer to Jason, assuming he is the one that is doing the warranty repairs, is that a product sent back to the factory for warranty repair needs to be perfect before it is returned to the customer. If you miss something and the customer has to send it in for a second round of warranty repair your reputation takes a big hit. Bigger than from the first repair. It doesn't matter if this is a car, a TV set, or a gun. I had the impression (especially from Brandon) that they are very busy at SCCY. I know they need to keep the costs low, but it may be worth an additional $5 a unit to hire an additional final inspection person to cut down on the number of customer support calls and warranty repairs. This is a business calculation - reducing the number of returns reduces costs in customer support. The intangible is the increase in customer satisfaction and customer loyalty. Blue Sky Value.

[mikemc53]

[/QUOTE] I had the impression (especially from Brandon) that they are very busy at SCCY. I know they need to keep the costs low, but it may be worth an additional $5 a unit to hire an additional final inspection person to cut down on the number of customer support calls and warranty repairs. This is a business calculation - reducing the number of returns reduces costs in customer support. The intangible is the increase in customer satisfaction and customer loyalty. Blue Sky Value.[/QUOTE]

I got the very same impression, and couldn't agree more as to their approach. Jason is a great guy (not as familiar w/Brandon) and seems pretty knowledgeable. But I do see almost a "hurry up and get it out" approach to the business. Attention to detail and a little more process tuning would do wonders for them - I believe.

By the way, the two issues that I had were not related. One (trigger and trigger bar) was fixed and shortly after I had a broken ejector that needed repair. Both turned extremely fast and with no expense whatsoever to me, but I really couldn't get comfortable with the gun as my EDC.

I may still go back, though, at some time in the future because they do make an interesting and fun handgun.

Let us know how that barrel thing works out - I can't remember mine so wouldn't be able to say if there was or wasn't a second step there.

Good luck!

[pbagley]

For your entertainment, and to satisfy my curiosity, I photographed the chamber and start of rifling in my Kahr and Taurus barrels. Submitted for your review and comparison to the SCCY barrel above are these images. All were taken using the same lighting, camera, lens, and exposure as the image of the SCCY barrel.

Starting with the Kahr CM9 @ 885 rounds fired:


Next, the Kahr CW45 @236 rounds (slightly dirty):


And just for fun here is a Taurus 738TCP @ 511 rounds:


None of these have a post chamber step in the forcing cone.

I'll post a photo of the replacement SCCY barrel when it arrives.