Isnt this nice?

[knkali]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insur...id=mailsignout

[OldFatGuy]

If only they'd do something about the high cost of medical care. The medical industry has no regulation, so they can write their own check. People want less government? This is what happens without government, the greedy run amuck.

[knkali]

If only they'd do something about the high cost of medical care. The medical industry has no regulation, so they can write their own check. People want less government? This is what happens without government, the greedy run amuck.

You and I see this from different angles. The high cost of medical care is two fold. One is due to the fact that people really want to have a prepaid healthcare system. IOW I pay my $20 copay and I really don't care what the bill is. This sort of spiraling costs occur with a third party payer system. No one is watching the cost of things. Premiums go up and up and up but as long as I get my services for $20 I am good. People want everything from a broken arm to a sore throat to cost only $20. This kind of all inclusive coverage is costly. Second the high costs are driven by the Gs' influence with Medicaid/Medicare AND the cost of complying to the never ending regulations put upon the industry. Look at Lasik eye surgery. When that first came out the cost was thousands. Since the procedure is generally not covered by insurance, providers are in competition for the cash business. Now that procedure can be had for fractions of what it once was. When there is no competition and no, or minimal, G influence, prices go down. Its time to get rid of the FDA the AMA and all the other regulatory agencies that help maintain this ridiculous healthcare situation. Let the industry compete for the $ and you will see prices go down.

[OldFatGuy]

You and I see this from different angles. The high cost of medical care is two fold. One is due to the fact that people really want to have a prepaid healthcare system. IOW I pay my $20 copay and I really don't care what the bill is. This sort of spiraling costs occur with a third party payer system. No one is watching the cost of things. Premiums go up and up and up but as long as I get my services for $20 I am good. People want everything from a broken arm to a sore throat to cost only $20. This kind of all inclusive coverage is costly. Second the high costs are driven by the Gs' influence with Medicaid/Medicare AND the cost of complying to the never ending regulations put upon the industry. Look at Lasik eye surgery. When that first came out the cost was thousands. Since the procedure is generally not covered by insurance, providers are in competition for the cash business. Now that procedure can be had for fractions of what it once was. When there is no competition and no, or minimal, G influence, prices go down. Its time to get rid of the FDA the AMA and all the other regulatory agencies that help maintain this ridiculous healthcare situation. Let the industry compete for the $ and you will see prices go down.

Yea, we see things differently. But as far as Lasik, I had it done almost 20 years ago when it was quite new. It was advertised $399/eye, it ended up costing me over $2000. Now they say $299/eye, but I bet it will still run you thousands. I will say that's the best $2000 I ever spent. I recently had a routine eye exam, I haven't had an eye exam since the procedure and follow up visits. The doc said he saw no scarring. He said he can always see the flap, but in my case it was done very well. My eye site was poor, I couldn't get out of bed without my glasses on, and now I still have 20-20.

[diablo53]

What I find interesting is it called the Affordable Care Act. But it isn't doing anything to reduce the cost of health care! Whatever you need still costs the same. But now everyone is expected to buy insurance to cover a portion of that bill. What I have noticed in my neck of the woods, is the sudden increase in urgent care centers and stand alone emergency rooms. It's pretty apparent the ACA has made being in the emergency medicine field much more lucrative!

[deadeye]

Same here. They are springing up all over the place. Interesting. I believe too many people just don't understand what Ovomitcare does for the middle class. It lightens middle class people with jobs, wallets. Much less change of back problems this way. Redistribution at it's finest!!!!

[b4uqzme]

Yea, we see things differently. But as far as Lasik, I had it done almost 20 years ago when it was quite new. It was advertised $399/eye, it ended up costing me over $2000. Now they say $299/eye, but I bet it will still run you thousands. I will say that's the best $2000 I ever spent. I recently had a routine eye exam, I haven't had an eye exam since the procedure and follow up visits. The doc said he saw no scarring. He said he can always see the flap, but in my case it was done very well. My eye site was poor, I couldn't get out of bed without my glasses on, and now I still have 20-20.

knkali's explanation of free market competition is correct. I think you got sidetracked by the Lasik example and missed his point.

[b4uqzme]

What I find interesting is it called the Affordable Care Act. But it isn't doing anything to reduce the cost of health care! Whatever you need still costs the same. But now everyone is expected to buy insurance to cover a portion of that bill. What I have noticed in my neck of the woods, is the sudden increase in urgent care centers and stand alone emergency rooms. It's pretty apparent the ACA has made being in the emergency medicine field much more lucrative!

very good point diablo! Markets will capitalize on opportunity whether it's natural or the result of government influence.

[downtownv]

Where everyone got screwed it now what was an UNTAXABLE benefit to your job is now taxable!
Those getting the subsidies have to add the Gubmint portion to their income as Income.... Yup f'ed again!
Gas, Grass or ass nobody rides for free....... except the congress and their staff who are exempt from this great ObamaCare! oh and the IRS employees!

[muggsy]

If only they'd do something about the high cost of medical care. The medical industry has no regulation, so they can write their own check. People want less government? This is what happens without government, the greedy run amuck.

Better to have the greedy run amok than to have the government to run amok. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The problem with America is that everyone expects something for nothing and they feel that it's their right to have it. If you think that healthcare was expensive then, wait until the government controls it and you.

[knkali]

bam...let me repeat that BAM

[SlowBurn]

Kinali is 100% right.

The idea that medical care has no regulation is beyond laughable. Try telling it to doctors, if you know any who aren't afraid (literally) to talk about it.

The original major distortions in the health care market were: first the labor laws which made employee health benefits a tax deductible expense to employers, but a non taxable benefit to employees. This caused the shift from most people buying their own health insurance (or paying out of pocket) and therefore having to care about cost to the vast majority getting it through work, and not caring what anything cost. So now seniors who had retired and their labor unions or employers who had to pay for their care in retirement, could no longer afford it. Solution: the second major distortion - Medicare so seniors no longer had to care what things cost. As costs got out more of hand, the "solution" as usual was always more government which of course made it worse. You can read about all this in economics studies, but its not that hard to understand yourself if you just take a step back.

If you want to get an idea what happens in a mostly unregulated market, consider electronics over the past 4 decades. Each new generation of a device as it comes out is the most expensive (though often less than the initial price of the previous generation) but things advance so quickly that the previous generation is an outstanding value and even the poorest can afford technology nobody could have bought at any price 40 years ago. If the government decreed that everybody had to be provided the best electronics available at no cost to them, we would still be typing on mechanical typewriters or, depending on when the regulations took effect, scratching on stone tablets.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ yes!

[knkali]

Slowburn gets it.

[marshal kane]

Some of my thoughts along this line: Think about the fraud that takes place with Medicare and ACA and it's our tax dollars that pay for it. No wonder that healthcare costs continue to rise, it's the government that makes the medical profession treat those who are unable to pay. Illegal aliens know all about the free health services available just across the border. Anyone who thinks ACA is affordable, think again. ACA rates go up next year and will continue to do so, the "affordable" rates are only to get people signed up. ACA was launched at the expense of Medicare. OB looted Medicare to get ACA started. The ACA subsidies from the government are considered as taxable income. Only the Dems went along with ACA. The Reps. voted no. IMO, the Dems have great ideas only they don't know how to implement them nor are they interested in any oversight. Last year, my former employer, ATT, dropped my healthcare policy. I'm currently a dependent on my wife's State run health plan. My doctor will no longer accept Medicare only patients, they need a secondary health plan to be accepted. O.K. time to get off the soapbox. There is no solution just over the horizon.